Thread: New Player gaches

... oh christ, it's you again. I very, very aggressively responded last time, but you're still making the exact same mistakes. I will correct you again.

To be noted: I've basically said the same thing before here.

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

-- Now... Many people talk about rerolling and plotting and all that. My advice: do take note of those but don't overvalue it too much. Because in my opinion several aspects get overrated. Sure, having a cool SSR Eidolon in your setup is good, no arguments. But the problem is that SSR is a very rare Eidolon.--

-- But I still dare say that you can gain more from trying to obtain good SSR's from events and actually having a good shot at level breaking them to the max (you can then raise them to level 100) rather than having a cool but super rare SSR Eidolon which you can only upgrade to level 40 at best (which is very easy to do over time).--

-- Make friends! And maintain your friends! Another reason why I think rerolling is sometimes overrated: if you have active friends you can use their eidolons. --

You don't understand how the game works.

No event will come CLOSE to a P2W Eidolon. EVER. Even at 0-stars and level 1, they absolutely CRUSH any and ALL other Eidolons - even level 100 ones. Level doesn't matter. The passive effect does. And 100% at 0-stars and 120% at 4-stars is just way, WAY too much for ANYTHING else to come even close.

Maybe you don't understand what P2W Eidolons are since you keep spouting this garbage. Let's set it straight:
Fire: Belial
Water: Rudra
Wind: Hraes
Thunder: Kirin
Light: Munagarum (not out yet, name subject to change depending on Nutaku's mood)
Dark: Anubis (not out yet)
(Wind: Hanuman (not out yet, far in the future))

Out of the gacha ones, these are the ONLY Eidolons that truly matter (and Kaiser Dragoon for back-up Eidolons I guess). Sure, some of the non-P2W ones are decent, but you'll need at least 2-stars on them for them to outperform event Eidolons (once they come out, we don't have all of them yet). And getting 2-stars on a specific gacha Eidolon is hard. Basically impossible without extremely deep wallets (10k+ dollars). Even if you get a LMB gacha Eidolon, the difference in power isn't THAT much.

EXCEPT for P2W Eidolons. Which are exceedingly rare. The difference in power from these is just... out of this world. You don't need to even get 1-star on them - they're insane straight out of the box. And, you probably never will find one of these. If you want a single one, 10k dollars won't get you far. In other words, you will never, ever find one of these without paying ridiculous amounts of real money. Or... you could just reroll into one of them.

And that's why, if you reroll into a P2W Eidolon, your friend list will be full of high level people who are active and have at the very least THE best event Eidolons. Or, you can just look for other P2W Eidolon users, as many of them don't accept non-P2W owners into their friendlist. Because what's better than one P2W Eidolons? TWO P2W Eidolons!

So please, stop spouting this garbage.
"Oh but gacha Eidolons will only be level 40 so they'll be bad!" NO. WRONG. P2W Eidolons laugh at ALL level 100 Eidolons even at level 1.
"Making friends is easy and you can use their Eidolons!" NO. WRONG. Without P2W Eidolons, you'll struggle to find proper friends for a very, very long time. If you have a P2W Eidolon, you can basically pick ANY active, high level player and they'll accept your friend request.
"Rerolling is overrated!" NO. WRONG. It's not overrated, it's underappreciated. We need more P2W Eidolons into the game and rerolling is basically the only way to get them into the playerpool. That said, P2W Eidolons are exceedingly rare (somebody lately said that they're nearing 2000 accounts and found zero P2W Eidolons) and are not required - but while hunting for a P2W Eidolon account you should at the very least settle for the minimum of either two SSRs of the same element or one core SSR.

Being wrong isn't inherently bad, but only if you learn from your mistakes. Please don't make me do this a third time.

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

-- And another tip: be sure to scope out the shop too! The single player missions gain you items too, which you can use to trade in the shop.--

Please no. The only thing worth buying from the Shop is Vine (the Dark Eidolon for her active ability). For some incomprehensible reason, the SR weapons in the store have an absolutely miserable Atk stats, making them effectively entirely worthless.

Originally Posted by Slashley

No event will come CLOSE to a P2W Eidolon. EVER. Even at 0-stars and level 1, they absolutely CRUSH any and ALL other Eidolons - even level 100 ones. Level doesn't matter. The passive effect does. And 100% at 0-stars and 120% at 4-stars is just way, WAY too much for ANYTHING else to come even close.

I can just agree with this XD Zen you are underestimating 100% eidos waaay too much, they are far stronger than anything in the game atm, event eidos you can get them on the run and improve your stats slowly by just grinding, 100% eidos dont even care about the dmg formula cause they will always be superior, you should know by now how strong they are by just borrowing them, you can say that rerolling is boring and a pita etc but this "But I still dare say that you can gain more from trying to obtain good SSR's from events" is just beyond dumb.

Originally Posted by Slashley

... oh christ, it's you again. I very, very aggressively responded last time, but you're still making the exact same mistakes. I will correct you again.

Gee, I wonder why :P I guess you also failed to get any of my messages so lets try that one again as well.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Out of the gacha ones, these are the ONLY Eidolons that truly matter (and Kaiser Dragoon for back-up Eidolons I guess). Sure, some of the non-P2W ones are decent, but you'll need at least 2-stars on them for them to outperform event Eidolons (once they come out, we don't have all of them yet).

And here we go. "Outperform". It's all about trying to be the strongest, best, etc. And apparently, according to some players such as yourself, that seems to be impossible without the P2W stuff, which I still disagree with.

So what exactly does all of this gain you, other than perhaps an easier victory? It's not as if the end result, winning the battle, can't be achieved otherwise. Because as you said: the status effect is what people concentrate on, but that only goes so far. It'll mostly be your kamihime's doing the actual fighting and applying the actual damage.

But as long as people are obsessed with "easier is better" you get your kind of nonsense. You wouldn't happen to have any (financial) stakes in the Kamihime game yourself by any chance? I mean, you almost make it sound as if I'm attacking your source of income merely because I "dare" to disagree with you and vent my opinion.

Once again you also failed to show why you think I'm wrong. You don't get much further by calling my opinion garbage and keep on venting how much better those P2W Eidolons are while failing to give us any actual examples. C'mon on; lay it all out if you're at it....

So, your argument is, because content CAN be cleared without P2W Eidolons, they're worthless?
... alright. Fair enough. But then you need to state it clearly to new players that your opinions are mathematically challenged.

Also, the one thing which is not mathematically wrong because it is objectively wrong is how say that maintaining your friend list is important, yet you don't recommend rerolling to a P2W Eidolon. Without a P2W Eidolon, a friend list is pure suffering to a new player. At the VERY least, get that part straight.

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

--
Once again you also failed to show why you think I'm wrong. You don't get much further by calling my opinion garbage and keep on venting how much better those P2W Eidolons are while failing to give us any actual examples. --

Define an actual example then.

You know, aside from pointing out that your "level obsession" is wrong. And the friend list thing.

Originally Posted by Slashley

So, your argument is, because content CAN be cleared without P2W Eidolons, they're worthless?
... alright. Fair enough. But then you need to state it clearly to new players that your opinions are mathematically challenged.

Ah, as I expected. When I merely ask for an example why you're attacking my opinion so obsessively you perform reverse logic and want me to defend mine instead. I fail to see the merit to be honest because all that will probably do is incite even more bullshit attacks, as demonstrated. Maybe in PM if you're really interested, then we also don't bother the others (this thread is about beginner gacha's after all). Or maybe the reroll thread...

Originally Posted by Slashley

Without a P2W Eidolon, a friend list is pure suffering to a new player. At the VERY least, get that part straight.

lol... What you call suffering is what I'd call actually playing the game. I also have some alts around, some of which have 0 P2W Eidolons and amazingly enough I still get things done. Still attract friends, still win battles, slowly (true that!) gain more power and most of all: I'm actually having fun.

Oh well... fanboys will be fanboys. In every kind of game. It's either their way or the highway, and nothing in between. Thanks for clarifying this for me.

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

Ah, as I expected. When I merely ask for an example why you're attacking my opinion so obsessively you perform reverse logic and want me to defend mine instead. I fail to see the merit to be honest because all that will probably do is incite even more bullshit attacks, as demonstrated. Maybe in PM if you're really interested, then we also don't bother the others (this thread is about beginner gacha's after all). Or maybe the reroll thread...

I'm still waiting for you to define an example.

Originally Posted by ZenMaster

Gee, I wonder why :P I guess you also failed to get any of my messages so lets try that one again as well.


And here we go. "Outperform". It's all about trying to be the strongest, best, etc. And apparently, according to some players such as yourself, that seems to be impossible without the P2W stuff, which I still disagree with.

So what exactly does all of this gain you, other than perhaps an easier victory? It's not as if the end result, winning the battle, can't be achieved otherwise. Because as you said: the status effect is what people concentrate on, but that only goes so far. It'll mostly be your kamihime's doing the actual fighting and applying the actual damage.

But as long as people are obsessed with "easier is better" you get your kind of nonsense. You wouldn't happen to have any (financial) stakes in the Kamihime game yourself by any chance? I mean, you almost make it sound as if I'm attacking your source of income merely because I "dare" to disagree with you and vent my opinion.

Once again you also failed to show why you think I'm wrong. You don't get much further by calling my opinion garbage and keep on venting how much better those P2W Eidolons are while failing to give us any actual examples. C'mon on; lay it all out if you're at it....

I'll keep it short...

Yeah, you are right. Winning the battle can be achieved otherwise.
You have 3 options:
1. you start with your first account and don't care what himes you get from the 6k tutorial jewels
2. you reroll until you have a core Hime for a element or 2 good SSR from the same element
3. you reroll until you get an 100% Eido

I am starting to think that you aren't a logical person...

Even a SSR Core Hime for one element or 2 good SSR Hime will make you life so much easier as a newbie...
You have a good starting Hime and now you can start to max this element. After 1-2 month you will have a very good team that can do most of the current contents solo. This team will be your wildcard for months!

Now you are going to start to upgrade your other grids until they are good enough that you can run with elemental advantage and do more damage than your main team.

A FUCKING 100% EIDO will just make your team for this element just OP...

You don't need a 100% Eido to win every battle but dude those MONSTERS will just make you life for later contents (Guild Orders and Tower) so much easier.
You don't need to have one but you should always choose a 100% Eido as a support Eido.

YOU CAN PLAY HOW YOU WANT! THAT'S YOUR DECISSION BUT PLEASE DON'T TELL NEW PLAYERS SUCH A BULLSHIT!

If you have the choice to start easier with a good core hime or a 100% Eido then you should always reroll!
Basically you should always reroll for most of the gatcha games.

PS: ZenMaster please try RANK 3 or 4 Accesory quest... with your current team and strategy you will have a lot of problems!
Don't even try Guild Orders or Tower.

Originally Posted by I AM TELLING SHIT!

PS: ZenMaster please try RANK 3 or 4 Accesory quest... with your current team and strategy you will have a lot of problems!

What "current" team? I have 8 of them, each specialized in either one single element or one mixture for experimenting. I definitely agree that trying to attack thunder with a thunder team (which is mostly active b/c of the event) would be dumb. That's why I keep more around. And yes, I agree: those higher level accessory missions are more difficult. Not impossible. Not even for me.

(you can ignore this meme if you don't want to view it, i just made it for fun lol)

in my opinion, rerolling is a blessing for this game, especially for new players
because some games don't give you the option to reroll, like FGO, meaning you're basically stuck with whatever you get from the start and if RNG doesn't favor you, life is gonna be hard.

like yeah sure, that might be normal in the beginning but, would you want that to stay the same way forever?
Would you prefer your battles to last over 30 turns each time? exaggerated example i know, but obviously you wouldn't since that would be a pain in the ass to deal with every time. if 100% eidolons can make your battles just last 10 to 15 turns instead of 30 turns, I would rather take the route with less turns

most newbies to this game will always get that "roll for a 100% eido" advice or at least 2 core SSRs or something for an element of their choice), because that's the best advice they can get from them, and some old players didn't even get the option to reroll at all, much less at these recent 100% eidolons we are getting because they didn't exist at the time they began playing this game

I didn't reroll either since I placed a lot of effort into my own account before I even discovered what rerolling was, but if I had the option at that time I would have. even more so if 100% eidolons were available at that time, but no they werent lol

and let's face it- kamihime is not a newbie friendly game, some people will probably get turned off from playing this by how much you actually have to grind just to get the good stuff. and newbies won't be able to do this at all, and not for awhile until they can get on the level of ultimates (in terms of advents of course, for raids they can rely on people)
and i know that advent material cost reduction for the shop is coming close, but newbies will still have a hard time with that

But if they had a 100% eido, things will be a bit different. if they played consistently, they might not take awhile before they can do ultimates, and they'll have an easier time trying to catch up with most players because that's just how OP those 100% eidolons are. if they're not willing to spend a shit ton of cash just to roll for one (and they might not even get it) then why not get one for free? That's like the best deal you can have for this game right now and will make your life a lot more easier in future content, and as people said they'll attract a LOT of strong players with a full set of MLB'ed support eidos even at just a low rank. I don't even understand why someone would want to go the hard and slow way now..
I know it's not impossible to become strong in this game without those 100% eidos, but if you were in the beginning of a raid while someone else was using that, there's is NO WAY you can steal MVP from that guy especially if he has a decent grid + team. Having one of those is just a fast way to becoming strong, and why not take it?

tl;dr
100% eidos make life easier for newbies in the beginning, its like riding a racecar compared to a normal car
if you want actual examples on how they make life easier then (these ones are kinda common sense)
-much easier to add high rank players, let alone whales for a shit ton of good support eidos already at the beginning of the game
-you can use that element to clear all kinds of content with ease, especially in the future (except the element you're weak against)
-you won't need to farm any other eido for that element in main spot because 100% eidolons are irreplaceable as main eido

Originally Posted by BlazeRai

in my opinion, rerolling is a blessing for this game, especially for new players
because some games don't give you the option to reroll, like FGO.

This is false, you can re-roll in FGO. Whether it is a hassle to do or not, that's another issue.