Thread: [Event 49] Raid Battle vs Adrammelech

Originally Posted by Amak

Sooooo, is it weird that I collect a max level MLB of each Lilim to never ever use but just find it oddly satisfying to line up all Lilims from every element?

Satisfaction is never weird. You do you

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Cash in our stockpiled SR disasters (none for the new player, probably, and let's say we have 40 MLB by the time it comes out... 600).

One of the 2 numbers here seems wrong, either you mean 4 MLB (which I doubt) or 6000 points as SR give 30 points per piece (MLB SR 150 points). Nevertheless it's debatable getting yourself 40 MLB in a couple weeks (although it might be possible depending how much resources you throw in).

Originally Posted by Itoshira

One of the 2 numbers here seems wrong, either you mean 4 MLB (which I doubt) or 6000 points as SR give 30 points per piece (MLB SR 150 points). Nevertheless it's debatable getting yourself 40 MLB in a couple weeks (although it might be possible depending how much resources you throw in).

Whoops. Yup, did the maths wrongly here, mental calculation always fails me.

40 MLB SR eidolons was more of for the veterans that know raid eidolon store is rolling about. For the average player, give or take 10?

Resources wise, if you spam the catastrophes, you might be able to get away with less than 11 weeks per Kaiser.

Sticky.

10 characters.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

If you have a team that hits better than your light team, considering the element bonus isn't that game-breakingly high, I'd suggest you switch over to that instead.

Lilim sub fodder is... even debatable. The stats are pretty much SR level, so the only thing you have going for is the element boost. And well, there are other eidolons that provide the same boost, or even better. Ixion over thunder Lilim, for example.

When the raid eidolon store rolls about, that's instant degradation to orb fodder since everyone can buy Kaisers. If only they buffed these girls...

last i checked, you get only one kaiser copy every so often (if that cause i don't know if they resupply or not).... so it's gonna be a while before you can MLB one of them. if you're trying to damage spike your team, you should be using lilims and both dragoons in sub slots given the damage increase from buffs should outweigh the stats. but optimized sub slots for that would get filled with kaisers eventually cause they have insane stats with incredible buffs. i'm just saying don't drop the lilims from the sub slots until you need to cause that's a few turns of buffs you could be using.

with all 3 of the buffers that's up to 15% elem atk and 20% elem def for 3 turns from SR dragoons, it says medium for lilim elem atk buff so i'm guessing 20% from that for 3 turns, and then kaiser comes in with up to 50% elem atk and however much elem def for 2 turns. that's 8 turns of at least 15% damage increase until you can start filling the sub slots out with kaiser copies, in which case it'll only grow from there. and bonus points to this strategy if you can add eidolons like fafnir, ifrit, and meng huo into the mix. a free player (that might have rolled a different 100% eidolon) could use all 6 with fafnir as the lead, but someone with say belial could just replace someone else, let belial take the lead, then probably toss the SR dragoon out cause it has the weakest of the buffs. just saying it's a thought.

as for my teams hitting hard, only ones that would come close is fire (and that's if i go buff happy with my kami, which yamaraja needs leveled for), and dark (which needs an ability nuke setup and either my satan or thanatos to go with my amon). light can just debuff and go, especially since my lineup has Sol, Raphael, Tsukiyomi, Diana, Shamash, and Metatron, so I can set them how I need. if debuffs won't stick so well, then fire is my best damage output hands down. that said, i kinda dropped wind as my secondary (but still use them) and moved fire to it cause my grid for light is more or less set, i just need to level everything.

in fact, that light grid is here:

->Open Spoiler<-

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

last i checked, you get only one kaiser copy every so often (if that cause i don't know if they resupply or not)--

They don't restock. One copy of each is all you can get.

Originally Posted by Slashley

They don't restock. One copy of each is all you can get.

if that's the case, why are people so quick to throw the lilims out? main slots is a huge no, but sub slots should be fine due to buffs

in fact, that's all the more reason to have a lilim and kaiser in a sub slot and not just one of them. once you get one copy of each kaiser, you're done unless you pull them, and given you'll see union events repeat, then extra copies can get tossed at the kaisers and one MLB copy can be saved..

last i checked, buffs and elemental attack outweigh the raw stats a lot of the time, the same case for the weapon skills

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

if that's the case, why are people so quick to throw the lilims out? main slots is a huge no, but sub slots should be fine due to buffs

in fact, that's all the more reason to have a lilim and kaiser in a sub slot and not just one of them. once you get one copy of each kaiser, you're done unless you pull them, and given you'll see union events repeat, then extra copies can get tossed at the kaisers and one MLB copy can be saved..

last i checked, buffs and elemental attack outweigh the raw stats a lot of the time, the same case for the weapon skills

because of their low stats? lol

would kaiser dragoons and lilims buffs even stack with each other? If they have the same frame then that seems kinda useless
Lilims also take 10 turns to use and only a 10% elem atk increase, while kaiser dragoons only take 8 turns while having a larger buff (30% elem atk increase and 30% elem RST)

Well... if you're going to wait for 10 turns before you can have your two buffs for extra damage (turn 9 kaiser + turn 10 lilim), you're likely to be either, pretty close to dying, or you're doing so well that the buff doesnt factor into your gameplay that much. That also assume kaiser and lilim buff stack... I never used lilim, so I dont know. Someone can check that for me?

In ragnarok disaster case, if you're solo-ing, and you're in the position where you need that extra buff from lilim, you are not likely to last 10 turn to get any benefit from lilim. If you're sharing it with others, the rag would probably be close to dead anyway by the time you get to turn 10.

The average team is going to be ready for full burst by turn 7/8, while it's probably okay to wait for another 2-3 turn for your lilim buff, bear in mind that you're likely to eat another rage OD from the boss from the wait and most people will want to avoid that.

Only content that allows you to build up that much turn without being unpractical would be AQ4.

It all comes down to this question for most people... Are you going to keep something that is inferior stats-wise for that little amount of practical use in-game, or you replace that inferior stat stick to a better stat stick that you're going to benefit from turn 0?

Originally Posted by MagicSpice

if that's the case, why are people so quick to throw the lilims out? main slots is a huge no, but sub slots should be fine due to buffs--

I don't understand why anyone would want to use Lilims as subs... even if you consider on-element bonus, it's like 1650 atk vs. 2000+ atk for good off-element Eidolons. In other words, the stats are pitiful. The on-use is... okay-ish, but on a long cooldown and nothing special.

Mind you, the most Elemental attack you can gain is 45% elemental advantage + 90% Eidolons (excluding P2W) + 30% Relic. This means 165%. That's more than what you have for Assault, so Atk Up buffs become stronger than Elem Up buffs. If we take elemental advantage and Relic weapons out, then yes, Elem Up buffs are quite strong since 90% Elemental attack will be far less than your Assault.

Anyway, what makes Kaisers special is:
1. Only 8 turn CD, so ready quite fast for an Eidolon
2. Gives you a hefty amount of damage cut against the opposing element (not sure what the value is here, 30% at LMB?)
3. Gives you a hefty amount of Elem+ (30% at 0-stars, 40% at 1-star)
4. the stats are alright at 0-star (around 1600 before same-element bonus) and already around a whopping 2000 at 1-star.

Meanwhile, compare to Lilim and it's like... bad stats at LMB (0-star Kaiser is all that most people will have and is around the same, though!) and only 10% Elem+ with a long cooldown. You're just better off with something else, like Tiamat/Ygg/Sphinx/Mii.

tl;dr; Assuming that you ever use Eidolon active abilities, Kaisers are good enough to make it to your team at 0-star (same element), but get REALLY good at 1-star (same element). Meanwhile, Lilims are trash. Something you might use as a new player, but nothing else.

Originally Posted by Shieun

-- That also assume kaiser and lilim buff stack... I never used lilim, so I dont know. Someone can check that for me? --

They don't. I haven't tested, but I'd be shocked if they did. They're both elem up+ Eidolon frame.