last i checked, you get only one kaiser copy every so often (if that cause i don't know if they resupply or not).... so it's gonna be a while before you can MLB one of them. if you're trying to damage spike your team, you should be using lilims and both dragoons in sub slots given the damage increase from buffs should outweigh the stats. but optimized sub slots for that would get filled with kaisers eventually cause they have insane stats with incredible buffs. i'm just saying don't drop the lilims from the sub slots until you need to cause that's a few turns of buffs you could be using.Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac
with all 3 of the buffers that's up to 15% elem atk and 20% elem def for 3 turns from SR dragoons, it says medium for lilim elem atk buff so i'm guessing 20% from that for 3 turns, and then kaiser comes in with up to 50% elem atk and however much elem def for 2 turns. that's 8 turns of at least 15% damage increase until you can start filling the sub slots out with kaiser copies, in which case it'll only grow from there. and bonus points to this strategy if you can add eidolons like fafnir, ifrit, and meng huo into the mix. a free player (that might have rolled a different 100% eidolon) could use all 6 with fafnir as the lead, but someone with say belial could just replace someone else, let belial take the lead, then probably toss the SR dragoon out cause it has the weakest of the buffs. just saying it's a thought.
as for my teams hitting hard, only ones that would come close is fire (and that's if i go buff happy with my kami, which yamaraja needs leveled for), and dark (which needs an ability nuke setup and either my satan or thanatos to go with my amon). light can just debuff and go, especially since my lineup has Sol, Raphael, Tsukiyomi, Diana, Shamash, and Metatron, so I can set them how I need. if debuffs won't stick so well, then fire is my best damage output hands down. that said, i kinda dropped wind as my secondary (but still use them) and moved fire to it cause my grid for light is more or less set, i just need to level everything.
in fact, that light grid is here:
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Last edited by MagicSpice; 06-30-2018 at 10:49 AM.
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They don't restock. One copy of each is all you can get. Originally Posted by MagicSpice
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if that's the case, why are people so quick to throw the lilims out? main slots is a huge no, but sub slots should be fine due to buffs Originally Posted by Slashley
in fact, that's all the more reason to have a lilim and kaiser in a sub slot and not just one of them. once you get one copy of each kaiser, you're done unless you pull them, and given you'll see union events repeat, then extra copies can get tossed at the kaisers and one MLB copy can be saved..
last i checked, buffs and elemental attack outweigh the raw stats a lot of the time, the same case for the weapon skillsLast edited by MagicSpice; 07-01-2018 at 12:04 AM.
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because of their low stats? lol Originally Posted by MagicSpice
would kaiser dragoons and lilims buffs even stack with each other? If they have the same frame then that seems kinda useless
Lilims also take 10 turns to use and only a 10% elem atk increase, while kaiser dragoons only take 8 turns while having a larger buff (30% elem atk increase and 30% elem RST)Kamihime Friend ID: 3409200
If you're interested in adding me, here are my support eidolons: (Outdated, too lazy to update)
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Well... if you're going to wait for 10 turns before you can have your two buffs for extra damage (turn 9 kaiser + turn 10 lilim), you're likely to be either, pretty close to dying, or you're doing so well that the buff doesnt factor into your gameplay that much. That also assume kaiser and lilim buff stack... I never used lilim, so I dont know. Someone can check that for me?
In ragnarok disaster case, if you're solo-ing, and you're in the position where you need that extra buff from lilim, you are not likely to last 10 turn to get any benefit from lilim. If you're sharing it with others, the rag would probably be close to dead anyway by the time you get to turn 10.
The average team is going to be ready for full burst by turn 7/8, while it's probably okay to wait for another 2-3 turn for your lilim buff, bear in mind that you're likely to eat another rage OD from the boss from the wait and most people will want to avoid that.
Only content that allows you to build up that much turn without being unpractical would be AQ4.
It all comes down to this question for most people... Are you going to keep something that is inferior stats-wise for that little amount of practical use in-game, or you replace that inferior stat stick to a better stat stick that you're going to benefit from turn 0?
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I don't understand why anyone would want to use Lilims as subs... even if you consider on-element bonus, it's like 1650 atk vs. 2000+ atk for good off-element Eidolons. In other words, the stats are pitiful. The on-use is... okay-ish, but on a long cooldown and nothing special. Originally Posted by MagicSpice
Mind you, the most Elemental attack you can gain is 45% elemental advantage + 90% Eidolons (excluding P2W) + 30% Relic. This means 165%. That's more than what you have for Assault, so Atk Up buffs become stronger than Elem Up buffs. If we take elemental advantage and Relic weapons out, then yes, Elem Up buffs are quite strong since 90% Elemental attack will be far less than your Assault.
Anyway, what makes Kaisers special is:
1. Only 8 turn CD, so ready quite fast for an Eidolon
2. Gives you a hefty amount of damage cut against the opposing element (not sure what the value is here, 30% at LMB?)
3. Gives you a hefty amount of Elem+ (30% at 0-stars, 40% at 1-star)
4. the stats are alright at 0-star (around 1600 before same-element bonus) and already around a whopping 2000 at 1-star.
Meanwhile, compare to Lilim and it's like... bad stats at LMB (0-star Kaiser is all that most people will have and is around the same, though!) and only 10% Elem+ with a long cooldown. You're just better off with something else, like Tiamat/Ygg/Sphinx/Mii.
tl;dr; Assuming that you ever use Eidolon active abilities, Kaisers are good enough to make it to your team at 0-star (same element), but get REALLY good at 1-star (same element). Meanwhile, Lilims are trash. Something you might use as a new player, but nothing else.They don't. I haven't tested, but I'd be shocked if they did. They're both elem up+ Eidolon frame. Originally Posted by Shieun
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Yep you are right, they dont stack, so lilims indeed are trash, only usable as a niche Main eido if you wanna run off ele thor + something else. Originally Posted by Slashley
Shade on KH, fire main.
Wind Rag farming team:
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They could be usefull if you have Fluffy (100% light eido) or Anubis (100% dark eido) and lack some light/dark eidos. Originally Posted by Ikki
Well, ofc after they are released
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i figured the buffs wouldn't stack, that's why i mentioned using them one after the other (lilim, then SR drag, then kaiser is still at least 7 turns of buffs when used back-to-back)
and granted, the base stats are lower, but the overall increase from buffs in battle would override that.... except...
stronger buffs would still have obvious priority over weaker ones.... if you have them.
assuming if i wanted to be buff oriented (and had the mentioned eidolons) for fire and took the fire lilim, both fire dragoons, the phantom lilim, fafnir as main, friend belial, and ifrit, then that's a lot of buffs. but given that meng huo is a thing, she'd easily knock off someone (likely one of the lilims or the SR dragoon in this case).
what i was mentioning is the cases where someone doesn't have all that. out of what i've mentioned, i'd still be missing the dragoons... leaving at least 1 slot open. that could possibly get replaced with typhon.... if she was stronger (she has attack up, but mine is 1 star).
all i'm saying is that using them is a possiblity, but i'm also not saying to keep them all the time when you clearly have something better. optimal strategy would be to take the stronger buffs after all, more so if they have higher stats (which is why if someone ever did MLB 5 of the same kaiser, their sub slots probably won't get any better).
thing is, there's too many looking at "the most OP stuff" and not "what someone might have". we don't all have the same stuff so you need to factor in what can lead to getting said stuff. i just gotten asked on a video if someone's light team of Mordred with sniper shot, Urania, Baldr, Dike, Inanna, with Uzume and Orphie subs was good, even though they mentioned their light grid was more or less on par with mine. meanwhile i'm using same soul and ex, but with Sol, Tsuki, Raph, Diana, with Metatron and Shamash as subs. that's VASTLY different there.
did not mean to derail this so far, but did not expect things to go this deep either. it really baffles me as to how so many overlook that "someone may not have access to the same stuff you have". (that and the massive taboo of misinformation, cause people do make mistakes and condemning them DOESN'T HELP)Last edited by MagicSpice; 07-01-2018 at 07:37 PM.
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At that point I'd rather bank on a couple of raid eidolon dupes/ extras from the orb store once it's out... Originally Posted by Sora
They could be usefull if you have Fluffy (100% light eido) or Anubis (100% dark eido) and lack some light/dark eidos.
Well, ofc after they are released
Barong Nicholas Sphinx Phoenix and a light Kaiser + Mag for light. And not to mention 2 of those are purchasable whenever... in a month. Annnnd I forget dark, but there isn't a huge need for the lilims if you've got stuff set up.
That leaves the only practical use for lilims to be for newer players... that happen to have either the light or dark 100%. Or straight up don't have better options. And 100 jewels.Last edited by Cobblemaniac; 07-01-2018 at 07:50 PM.
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