Thread: New DMM Feature: Seraph Union Events! (Goodbye Demon)

Siegfried herself wont get a rework, but her Relics will.

Her Assault Relic will let her Raging Nuke proc twice.
Her Defender Hammer gives her Rage Mode-Buff an additional damage buff (30% Normal Atk, 20% Burst) for 2 turns. RIght now I dont know if it counts for all Modes or if it is specifically for Raging. Nevertheless, it helps Dark building a Hammer Grid for example.

People also use Sieg-Based Teams to OTK (One turn kill) Cata Ultimates (mainly Nuke Heavy Teams to put it into Raging and then into Stun). Biggest usage is during the 1-Turn-Dummy Event where Water has proven to be the Element of doing the highest amount of damage possible thanks to Stun-Punisher and heavy buff stacker.
They are niche, yes, but after a certain point of power they become a viable option - and are far from garbage.

Sin ultimates or Virtue ultimates? Because I already implied that the Sins are basically the one sort of content in which you can expect stun mode to come up early enough in a fight for a stun punisher to be impactful to your ability to win.

With Ultimates I meant the Catastrophe Ultimates. UE Events are plagued by Para, so in theory it doesnt even matter what you bring.

Originally Posted by Itoshira

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They are niche, yes, but after a certain point of power they become a viable option - and are far from garbage.

I don't think that something that is literally only useful in a punching dummy event can be considered anything other than garbage...

Originally Posted by Slashley

I don't think that something that is literally only useful in a punching dummy event can be considered anything other than garbage...

Light Nike
On a more serious note, something being niche does not mean it's garbage. That mentality may prove fatal in some competitive content. And damn Siegfried with ATK weapon does seem really good for dealing damage in short period of time (double 4~5 nuke at raging, stun burst with 40% echo burst). Is it better than what Herc/Shingen/whatever have to offer ? In most cases not, but in some it may be, and Siegfried is free.

Funny enough, because I define 'stun punisher' as the skill as opposed to the [i]character/i] possessing the skill, 'beating raging enemies extra hard' doesn't do anything for my evaluation of 'stun punishers' specifically. What that means for Siegfried is that her 'weight/gameplay value' from a design perspective isn't mostly tied up into her anti-stun buff, unlike Ea (that is what screws characters like her over; offering little outside of a very flawed mechanic). Buffing her anti-raging stuff can be nice. They can elevate Siegfried depending on what you're looking for. Doesn't change that 'stun punisher' as a class of skills/specific mechanic is usually utterly fucked by the enemy design xP

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Light Nike

Light Nike can be useful in GO and AQ5. I assume that means also AQ6 and AQ7, but I haven't looked into those. Meanwhile, I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far, and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

On a more serious note, something being niche does not mean it's garbage. --

Stun punishers CAN do massive amounts of damage since the modifier is usually extremely high and in a (almost) unique modifier (doesn't stack with Berserk). But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun, what's the point? Why not use something that'll actually help you win?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Meanwhile, I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far, and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2.Stun punishers CAN do massive amounts of damage since the modifier is usually extremely high and in a (almost) unique modifier (doesn't stack with Berserk). But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun, what's the point? Why not use something that'll actually help you win?

Originally Posted by Slashley

Light Nike can be useful in GO and AQ5. I assume that means also AQ6 and AQ7, but I haven't looked into those. Meanwhile, I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far, and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2.Stun punishers CAN do massive amounts of damage since the modifier is usually extremely high and in a (almost) unique modifier (doesn't stack with Berserk). But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun, what's the point? Why not use something that'll actually help you win?

Awesome for F14 Tower.
2nd Boss 50% Trigger... get her in rage, let her kill your meatshield, she will go in stun.
Meatshield is dead = Stun KH from sub will come and do her job.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I don't think that Stun punishers are useful in any of the four GOs I know of so far

Present GO batch has one stage with enemy that has rage bar, so it is pretty bad. For next GO batch stages 3-5 have enemies with rage bar. Will stun punishers be useful there ? Doubt it, but we'll see.

Originally Posted by Slashley

and in AQ5 they can only be used in... Fire, Water and Wind wave2

That's half of AQs though ? Okay, that's only stage 2, so it's not terribly useful indeed.

Originally Posted by Slashley

But again, since in just about all content there is no point in them since you've already won when you reach Stun

Hold on, define this "just about all content", because aside from Light present Ragnarok raids have stun phase 'pretty early'. Raid events also very often have stun phase before end of fight.

Also for me "niche use" means that something is less than optimal in most cases, but in some it may be the best option.

I can kind of agree on Catastrophe raids, as the majority of them see stun at least twice.
I would not agree with raid events. They're usually normal->raging->stun->normal, possibly a bit of raging round 2 if shavers were used in raging #1. Otherwise, by the time you hit stun, you've already gone through the bulk of the threat the fight poses.
Unless you're arguing less for materially affecting odds of victory and more for something else, like using a stun punisher to yank away MVP. Then there's enough remaining HP for that to be possible in some cases.