ALL Heals and Regens in Kamihime work like that. ALL of them Heal for x% of max HP.Originally Posted by dreamlitz
However. This "x" is extremely high. Like, I wouldn't wonder if SR Nike - you know, the Hime you start the game with! - healed for 50%. Is that a fact? Well... no. Because these numbers aren't really recorded anywhere, since they're SO HIGH it's hard to find the breakpoint before you already reach the healing cap! I also call bullshit on that mere 33% from SSR Sol. That sounds reeaaally low and would require 5454 max HP to cap. Well, I guess everyone had that at the point that Sol Awakening came to be a thing... the original 1500 Heal would then require 4545 max HP to cap. Which is easy to reach with just a SSR Eidolon Grid. But again - I really doubt that it's as low as 33%. The only thing I've EVER not hit cap with was Belobog's Regen. Which I think is 4% per tick, at 300 max. This would require 7500 HP to max out, which is something that I absolutely didn't have against Dullahan, despite having played the game for a couple of months at that point.
Thus, because of the way that Kamihime Heals work, increasing your Healing done is pointless - instead, increasing the cap is what matters. This is why the Kaiser passive effect is useless, since you're always capped on your Heals and it doesn't increase that cap.
As far as Atum goes... you do realize that 10k HP is trivial to reach these days, right? Most F2P teams are running 12k-18k HP, and whales are running 10k+ base HP on their Souls - and that's obviously before any Defender they may or may not be running! Regardless - sure, let's say that Atum actually DOES need this increased Heal amount. That's still exactly ONE HIME in the entire game. Is it really necessary to inform players of the interaction of that one single Hime, when for everyone else they reach the cap easily anyway?Soooo... you're saying that you intend your spreadsheet to be read like "20% at full HP, and add 20% when at low HP"? Oh, okay. I don't see the reason why you would make your readers run through minor mental exercises like that instead of just presenting them a "20% at full, 40% at low", but fair enough, I guess?Something like this is never reliable, universal information though. Triggers and Overdrives may allow for that in some content, but won't allow for it in a lot of it.
See above, I'm pretty certain you're the one who doesn't understand the basics of how Heals work in Kamihime. Which is no surprise, as few people do thanks to the Heal % is so high and the caps are so low.
Again, increasing Healing done does nothing for you. The important part is increasing the cap which is extremely low - once the cap is raised, you will have enough HP to get the full Heal anyway. Oh, and the Ascension cap is 200%, meaning triple the amount Healed. So you get Andros healing from 1600 -> 4800 in raids.So, if double Assault weapons are so plentiful and easy to get... why not just fill your Grid with them?
Oh right, it's because they're not that easy to come by and you're talking dreams out of your ass. For example:Six Thunder Olympia Guns, huh. Let's see. Assuming that you get all four copies each month, you'll have yourself done in six months - assuming that you grind yourself through 350 Thunder Olympia raids. Every. Single. Month. And that's just ONE element. So you'd be done in... June if you managed that 350 raids in the last week of 2019, but more likely in July 2020. And let me remind you - that's 2100 raids over this timespan, worth of 10500 Seeds. And all of your loot goes towards those specific weapons - and nothing else. Meanwhile, what about the rest of your elements?
Of course, you can say that you'll just run them at low Limit Breaks. Feasible. If we lower it to just two Guns per month, you'll have your set of six weapons at 0-Stars in March/April. This has the added benefit of only requiring 100 raids per month (500 Seeds per month, down from 1750 Seeds per month). But you're still running a Phantom Gun Grid with six 0-Star weapons, which is... not... the best of ideas.
Are you seeing the problems of reality yet? This is assuming the same droprate as Magnas, which I don't know will it be the case or not.
But we're not even done yet. Leaving aside the irony of still leaving old UE weapons (that aren't accessible anymore and we only ever got two out of) in this ideal, fantasy Grid of yours... if anyone is going to commit so big on Thunder, why wouldn't they... I dunno, make use out of those Marduk (Assault(+)/HP(+)/Exceed) and Raiko (Assault(++)/Pride) Hammers? I mean, over the period of six months, there are going to be three Towers. And that's 3x 15000 Medals - just one Tower away to FLB both of those. At least it's easy to think where the Marduk Hammer goes, as they're a straight-up upgrade compared to UE Lances. I'd say replace the non-existing one.
You also forgot to include Soul weapon. You're not going to run Dartagnan with an Olympia Gun, right? ... right?
tl;dr; You have your head in the clouds. I'm not sure what you're basing your theorycrafting on, but I'm preeeeetty sure it isn't reality.
And posting this, I see that you edited your second post from just a one-liner into something bigger. Don't have the time to read it right now, will comment on it after sleep+work.
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Thread: Olympian weapons vs demon UE FLB
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I'll admit... you got heart kid! And you're a fighter so that's also a plus. But, unfortunately, your counter argument makes you sound like a bit of an idiot, since you weren't using your brain. It's pedantic, mundane, procedural, and focused in minutiae instead of the bigger picture. You happen to have a scarcity mindset and you need to change it to a growth mindset. Otherwise you'll never see the possibility that's staring you right in the face. You also have to familiarize yourself with what you're arguing over. I'll hit some of the points you brought up, but I'm not usually interested in the weeds (big picture thinker myself). Originally Posted by Slashley
1) When talking about ascension weapons, I happen to paraphrase the intent of the weapon. The quoted bonus I was stating is the healing cap bonus (which dreamlitz lists first and also includes in his notes below. good job dream!). A thunder gun at sl20 gives you a 24% increase in the healing cap- I just refer to that as additional healing. It also gives you 3% additional healing, but who the fuck cares... right? Please please please take a look at the weapon definition on the wiki so that you understand what we're talking about.
2) It's theorycrafting... it's supposed to be 'Field of Dreams' like; go big or go home! It was mostly trying to showcase some of the possibilities these weapons allow you to do and why the guardian eidolon is an awesome choice for anyone who doesn't have a P2W eidolon. These weapons and that eidolon allow you to compete with a P2W grid. You may not be totally on par, but you're damn close.
3) You don't need to have this all right now. As someone smart told me once (you Slashley!!), Kamihime is a marathon, not a sprint. These weapons work well when you have a ton of them (and you should work to get more), but they do wonders in just individual drops also. You're not limited to just using guardian weapons; no one is. You most definitely want to add the great Hime weapons you've FLBed already to the mix and you'll definitely want to replace the lower tier advent and union weapons you have from prior events. You don't have to do it in one burst... take your time and enjoy the journey!
4) A 0LB dual assault type guardian weapon (assault/vigor or assault/pride) at full skill is better than a FLB single assault skill weapon at full skill. The base stats, while helpful, aren't where you're getting your power from. It's just like a 0LB sl 20 SSR assault weapon is better than a MLB sl 20 SR assault weapon. That 3% makes all the difference. Does it help having it limited break? Hell yes. But you can use it a zero level just fine.
5) The thunder gun at 0LB sl 20 have 16% assault and 8.5% vigor. Because the vigor is on it's own frame, it's effect multiplies base assault and therefore it's much greater than adding marginal assault in a well built grid. Assume your a player with 150% assault and looking to add a FLB assault weapon (21% assault) or this MLB thunder gun (16% assault/8.5% vigor) at full hitpoints that 8.5% vigor is equivalent to 21.25% assault giving you 37% at full health. It also comes with 24% healing cap which increases all healing by 24%.
The pride/assault glaive for wind gives you 20% assault at full health and gives you another 10% at half health. It also gives you 10% defender. This is much better than any FLB assault(L)/defender(M) weapon I can think of. It is about 400 total power and 6% defense below a Hime (Frey's sword is a great example) weapon, but I'm thinking those are acceptable losses for the extra assault it's giving you. If you stick a guardian Eidolon on that build you now have a weapon that gives you 28% assault and 14% defender making this weapon at full health 7% more assault and only 2% less defender. It also gives you 14% more assault as you lose life.
6) Dreamlitz and I have talked about (and shown graphs) about how to combine vigor/pride weapons to mitigate the overall loss in assault power you get when you lose hitpoints. Without other sources you should have 2 pride weapons for every vigor weapon in your grid to maintain an assault advantage at high hitpoints (85%+) and also at low hitpoints (60% or less). In between you suffer a small 5% loss in assault power. Once again, please look at those graphs I did and digest them so that you understand what you're criticizing. You don't understand the value of vigor that these weapons give to players (new or old).
Dejnov.
P.S. If you are using a Guardian Eidolon instead of a P2W one, you want as many sources of vigor (and some pride) to mitigate the elemental loss you're going to have. You also want to minimize the amount of defender, exceed, and ascension you stick in your grid as you'll usually have enough and may go over the caps imposed by those weapons. The dark gun (pride/strength), wind glaive (pride/stalwart), thunder gun (assault/sprout) and water lance (assault/sprout) and axes (pride/strength) are all top tier choices for a guardian eido.Last edited by Dejnov; 10-09-2019 at 03:42 PM.
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These numbers are actually recorded on the JP wiki - they're slightly spotty but covers most healers. SR Nike is actually the exception not the rule in terms of when you pass that break point. Nike U for example is only a 25% heal with 1800 cap, so the break point is 7200. Originally Posted by Slashley
There are also two other things you need to consider:
1. There are sources of ascension that raises the healing cap but not the % healed, such as Sol AW's 3rd ability that makes the break point higher than at first glance.
2. Ascension weapons usually further RAISES the break point, NOT lowers it (e.g. Sol AW 33% 1800 heal has a break point of 5454, add 1 FLB Ascension (++) becomes a 39% 2520 heal with a break point of 6461 - adding more ascension further raises the break point)
Sol was my first mtix and my first AW. I was at around 6-7k hp when I had her. With her 3rd ability up, she should be healing for 2700. I distinctly remember that she healed for less than that and it made me wonder whether I was understanding her 3rd ability correctly and sent me researching on this precise issue we're discussing here. I didn't do any extensive testing, but 33% implies 2310 heal at 7k, which is consistent with my recollection of Sol only healing low 2k for me back then.I also call bullshit on that mere 33% from SSR Sol. That sounds reeaaally low and would require 5454 max HP to cap. Well, I guess everyone had that at the point that Sol Awakening came to be a thing...
And since this is irrelevant garbage anyway, I will not bother testing it. Others are free to refute the JP wiki if they have hard evidence.
As I explained earlier, ascension will raise that break point. At max ascension, you're looking at 12k-13k break point depending what size ascension you're using assuming her heal is 2k. If it's 3k as stated by the JP wiki, the break point would be a whooping 18k-20k. Light isn't dark, we aren't flooded with defender weapons - if you missed the earlier events like Pheonix bow and Yule Goat axe, there aren't many great options for defender (which is why I keep running LB0 Tsuku bow in my grid and bought the St. Nick sword from ori shop as well as min-maxing eidolons to boost my base hp.)As far as Atum goes... you do realize that 10k HP is trivial to reach these days, right?
Also, one application of ascension is turtle builds. It is actually difficult to hit 10k hp with extreme turtle builds 'cos you're usually using crappy weapons and eidos to make the whole thing work. These break points actually do bind if you're not careful in your ascension/defender ratios.
If you don't have Atum, don't turtle or don't even use ascension, just ignore this information. If I exclude this information, someone with Atum can also come along and say my numbers are all wrong, the ascension on Olympian/UE weapons are very low because as you say, few ppl actually understands how healing works in KH. If I'm damned either way, I prefer to include more rather than less information.That's still exactly ONE HIME in the entire game. Is it really necessary to inform players of the interaction of that one single Hime, when for everyone else they reach the cap easily anyway?
If you want to know what the assault would be at X% HP, it's easier to have the numbers presented as base%/pride%, 'cos then the math is base% + X%*pride% - one multiplication and one addition. If I presented it as min%/max%, then calculation becomes min% + (max%-min%)*X% - that's one extra subtraction. Incidentally, listing base and pride multiplier separately is also how both the JP and EN wikis describe pride. Again, if I'm going to be damned either way, I choose the way that I personally find more helpful.Soooo... you're saying that you intend your spreadsheet to be read like "20% at full HP, and add 20% when at low HP"? Oh, okay. I don't see the reason why you would make your readers run through minor mental exercises like that instead of just presenting them a "20% at full, 40% at low", but fair enough, I guess?
I honestly don't understand the point of this statement. You asked me why I even bothered providing the pride multiplier, I replied with not one, but two examples of when it may be interesting to know the impact of pride and further stated that you're free to ignore that information if they do not apply to you and you're now criticizing one of my examples for not being universal (neither of my examples are universal btw, I mean, you CAN use Kali at full health, and lest I be accused of including information pertinent to exactly one hime, you can also use the following himes at full health and ignore that they're designed to not stay at full health: light Athena, Lugh, Tishtrya, Justitia, Nuwa (and everyone that's with her), Minerva, Ares and probably many others, these are just the ones I could think of off the top of my head.) Look, any time you take dmg, pride kicks in, how's that for universal? What is the impact of that? That's what the pride multiplier is there for.Something like this is never reliable, universal information though. Triggers and Overdrives may allow for that in some content, but won't allow for it in a lot of it.
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Interesting discussion. Keep up the good work dreams.
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I think a thunder gun grid is pretty good overall in the long run. My dream thunder grid is 2 Mammon guns, Phantom gun, 3 Olympian guns, 2 Marduk hammer, and 1 Raiko hammer with the meta thunder himes. With vigoras in it's own bracket, you can pretty consistently hit cap amounts of damage using a 5 vigoras weapons grid. In my calculations, it's actually very very difficult to hit the 350k cap with just assault and elemental multipliers alone. You could, in theory, do it with double MLB nid, thunder aphro's vigoras buff, kaiser buff, a whole bunch of raiko hammers, and a glass cannon hammer grid. But it's mathematically a lot easier if you make your vigoras multiplier bigger since you're getting significant diminishing returns from assault in that hammer grid.
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And what, exactly, do you do with with Ascension in Wind...? You're rather unlikely to run Set. You might run Frigg, but you didn't recommend her through MTs. Looks like an entirely wasted stat to me. Originally Posted by Dejnov
While I don't entirely disagree with that - please root your dreams at least somewhat into reality. There are very, very few players on the Nutaku who are going to farm that ludicrous amounts of the Olympia raids - specifically, when farming all of them. Hell, at some points you even mention farming multiple different weapons. Technically not much of an issue if you only want one one MLB of those (just buying one per month is reaaaaally cheap!) buuuuut... you sure make it sound like that's going to be an easy to get, immediate thing. Originally Posted by Dejnov
If you plan to farm one element exclusively, then it becomes far, far more feasible. However, that hasn't really been the premise on these forums for over a year now, so please mention that if that is your plan.I keep saying that because I agree with those words, but I would like to clarify that those are VERYVOODOO's words. At least I think he came up with them... don't know if he copied them from somewhere else. Originally Posted by Dejnov
So, you're saying that a 0-Star Grid of a non-Assault Phantom weapon is a good idea? I'd love to see real numbers from that experiment. My calc exists if you want to run the numbers. Originally Posted by Dejnov
I don't remember seeing such graphs, but they sound like they have a faulty premise. Effectively, you're relying on either wasting one portion of your Grid at high health, or relying on wasting an other portion of your Grid when at low health. Without presenting alternatives - such as non-Pride Assault with Vigor or full Assault/Pride at low HP - you don't have a proper graph. Originally Posted by Dejnov
Oh? What other sources? Outside of the mentioned Awakened Sol, I can only think of Andromeda's Soul weapon burst effect. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
And by the way, Awakened Sol's 3rd ability gives two buffs. One for more Healing power (overall entirely wasted due to the cap) and one to increase cap. Sooo that one doesn't really count for increasing the break point, if there's any kind of argument to be had there.
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... I don't know why you must make ascension sound like one of the worst skills ever, but saying that it is a useless stat for wind? There is Azazel AW and she is definitely MT-worthy and has team-wide 300 energy drain and 500 regen - ascension works on both. With all the DATA buffs you get from wind, you should think of it as the higher end of 300-900 energy drain and 500 regen on 5/7T CD. The main flaw I see is that taco may never give Azzy AW to us... Originally Posted by Slashley
Didn't want to wade into this part of the debate, but I can't help but think that you're implicitly assuming that players don't get better over time - when I first started, I had to manual advent experts - not even ultimates, experts, now all events are AAB material for me. Early on, I tried to do LUlt, which took me over twenty minutes to clear, with help, not even solo. It seemed crazy to me at the time that I was expected to farm these hundreds or even thousands of times. But then slowly, my grid got better, and now I just AAB every ult and I go manual LRags instead. I presume it'll be the same with Olympia raids - you get better over time and what used to be incredibly time-consuming grind becomes easier and faster.There are very, very few players on the Nutaku who are going to farm that ludicrous amounts of the Olympia raids - specifically, when farming all of them.
I only remember doing this with Abou, who had special atk that scaled like pride. I forgot the exact details, but I did find a build where Abou + some amount of vigor (I think it's just 1 SR replacing 1 SR disaster hammer) suffers at most a few % loss in dmg relative to St. Nick or Barong, but retains a lot of the upside at low HP. Originally Posted by Dejnov
You are right, Sol AW's ability buffs both, so that wasn't a good example. But other than Andro's weapon, there's also Andro/Cassio/Vivian master bonus, soul energy release, Dian passive (small but it's there), Lugh passive and Berith passive. I was also gonna throw in accessories and Shamash's 3rd ability, but I'm not sure if those buff just the cap or both or not. Originally Posted by Slashley
I've already pointed out that ascension tends to raise not lower the break point and also given you multiple examples of where the break point is binding, so I'm just going to reiterate:Sooo that one doesn't really count for increasing the break point, if there's any kind of argument to be had there.
Also, amended my original post: Originally Posted by dreamlitz
Originally Posted by dreamlitz
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I apologize; I must have posted it in discord in discussions with div about potential capabilities. I'll repost (slightly hijack) in your thread here so that it's located at the point of question. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
The graph is for assault (y-axis) over hitpoints (x-axis). The range of hit points is 100 to 0 and the range of assault is 5.4 to 3. The red line is a full FLB assault grid. I phantom weapon and 9 assault Large (21%) weapons. The green line is a shamash phantom weapon grid. Shamash adds pride on FLB to assault medium (5 weapons to make the phantom grid work). The blue line is the vishnu wheel grid (5 weapons plus a phantom glaive). It shows the potential for a vigor grid. The black line is a combo grid where you now use 3 shamash books and 2 vishnu glaives to balance out the loss/gain from both over the range of hitpoints. You're gains are 'smoothed' out over the range of hitpoints and show the potential for a mixed weapon set grid. It emphasizes the ability of pairing vigor/pride to keep your assault gain above just the best single assault grid. The second set of graphs show a set of pride and/or vigor weapons replacing an assault weapon of similar caliber. This is harder to work with (and that'll show in the graph) and that there is now no obvious 'winner' as they are straight trade off weapons, but combining pride and vigor together mitigates either skills disadvantages. This allows someone to populate weapons with pride and vigor into their grid as substitutes for a pure assault grid as temporary replacements for the triple weapon skills that are available later on.
The triple skill weapons from the Guardian raids will not be good as the vishnu/glaive combos (Hime weapons) as they lack FLB, but they won't be as bad as the second set where you're replacing assault with either vigor or pride. They'll definitely be better, but it won't be the same level of overpower as vishnu glaives/shamash books or mammon guns (etc.) that Hime weapons can achieve.
Enjoy!!
Dejnov.
Last edited by Dejnov; 10-10-2019 at 07:08 PM.
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That (questionable) honor belongs to Elaborate, hands down. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
That doesn't mean that Ascension is particularly good, though. I touched upon this in another thread lately, but to expand, here are requirements to make Ascension be a worthy stat:
1. You need to have Hime(s) who can make use out of it. Technically everyone has Andro, but then you run into:
2. You need to build a team with that/those specific Hime, without making your team suck.
3. Content needs to be the sort where having Heals makes a difference, ie. not a joke in difficulty for you (since if it is too easy, then you're just wasting Grid budget on something that does nothing for you). This might not be a big point since it's easy content that you clear anyway, why does it matter? The answer here is time taken.
4. Content needs to be healable (unlike say current Light Rag or AQ5 last boss).
ALL FOUR are required to make Ascension into a good stat. #1 is pure RNG (outside of MTs), #2 will probably need synergies (such as Thunder Aphro-Dian), and even if you clear those hurdles... #3 and #4 will constantly fluctuate, meaning that your hard work can go straight down the drain just because the content has changed. What should be noted is that I think DMM currently has like... five teams per element now? So building highly specialized teams will stop being an issue. Even after 6x Farming builds and 6x Burst Hour builds, you still have a whopping 18 highly specialized teams left, and I think you can even give them names so that you won't forget just what exact niche that team fills. At least, I hope that's a thing.
Patch notes-kun where are you...
Anyway. These four things make me veeeery iffy towards Ascension. Do I love my Light Grid that I use to heal Dark Rags? Yes. But that just means that #3 and #4 are currently just right, which might not be the case one week from now (Dark Olympia coming out). And, even though my Light Grid does great things, it outright prevents me from ever MVPing Dark Rag. With great Heals comes a great price, I guess I could say.
Though my lack of proper team certainly doesn't help. AAB Frey carry against content that doesn't really Rage is obviously not very ideal.
tl;dr; Is it possible to make Ascension into a good stat? Yes, yes it is. Is it as easy as just slapping some Ascension weapons in your Grid? Hell no it is not. Just like with Vigor, have a fucking plan.Ah, shit. You're right, I should've remembered the one-(wo)man Wind core. Yeah, no problem with Ascension there, Azazel clears problems #1 and #2 easily. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
I'm uh, willing to blame Nutaku for withholding Azazel Awakening for my derp there if you are?I don't understand when I ever said anything about that? Originally Posted by dreamlitz
The problem here isn't carrying Olympia raids - it's about outright time. Assuming Olympia are Rag-ish (and by that I mean, clear in about 10 minutes and drop 0.5 Globes), by leeching three raids at the same time you can earn 1.5 Globes per 10 minutes. This makes one Globe cost you ~6 minutes. Dejnov is making it sound like gathering up for 175 Globes on a monthly basis is easy, but that's ~19.5 hours per month. Now, that's perfectly manageable, being just ~40 minutes per day (of doing absolutely nothing else but farming Olympias). But, as we get more of them, you're gonna be farming multiple elements. Four elements are already ~78 hours a month, ~2.5 hours per day - EVERY day. Plus doing all the other stuff you're "expected" to run in Kamihime, like farming T2 Cores, Regalias, GO and AQs. That gets pretty rough, pretty fast.
Realistically speaking, you're going to be farming one weapon during the first rush of each element. Maybe two. But thinking about Grids with 5+ of the same Olympia weapon will effectively require you to drop other elements. And I think that should certainly be part of the discussion - root your expectations in reality.
And then there are people like Voodoo who will probably farm one MLB of each of the weapons per month until they have like eight of each - just because they can. But chances are pretty high anyone who is reading this is NOT one of those people.Yes, everything should go into the same 200% cap - that should be a hard cap that encompasses all methods. I don't have Berith or Lugh to test those, though. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
By the way, Andromeda's passive and Master Bonus are a complete mystery to me. They certainly don't have any effect on the healing cap. Simple proof, Andromeda heals 1600 by default and hard caps at 4800. 1600 * 3 = 4800. If Andromeda healed for 1500 by default with her passive and/or Master Bonus bringing it to 1600, then the Heal should cap at 4500...
So, the entire Master Bonus and that passive are entirely wasted. What a shame.Question. Originally Posted by dreamlitz
If you have zero interest in feedback, criticism and discussion, why even post this thing on these public forums? Wouldn't it be more in line to just post to some Discord buddygroup and be happy in that social bubble?
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I don't disagree with your points about ascension being largely situational, I was just annoyed at the comment about it being useless for wind, but it didn't seem to be intentional, so my bad for overreacting. Taco with their original game nonsense... Originally Posted by Slashley
I agree if you want 5+ of the same weapon in like 5-6 months, it will be pretty rough unless you neglect other stuff (or unless your union is so strong that you squish these things in a few minutes.) If you don't mind waiting though, you can stockpile your globes and just buy like 2 copies per month for almost half the cost (100 globes total for a full MLB vs. 175 for 4 copies per month.) It'll take you twice as long to get there, but yeah, it's a tradeoff, this game seems to punish you whenever you want to rush. Maybe that's not what Dejnov meant by marathon, I'll let him speak for himself, but just wanted to point out that that is an option.Realistically speaking, you're going to be farming one weapon during the first rush of each element. Maybe two. But thinking about Grids with 5+ of the same Olympia weapon will effectively require you to drop other elements. And I think that should certainly be part of the discussion - root your expectations in reality.
Actually, since I mentioned Lugh, I guess I should make sure ppl are aware that Lugh's passive technically isn't the same as regular ascension but a separate multiplier - if you stack up to 200% ascension on your grid and you put normal series accessories on her, it heals for 2100 not 1050 - i.e. it's 350 * (1 + 200% ascension) * (1 + 100% Lugh passive) = 2100, not 350 * (1 + min(200%, 200% ascension + 100% passive)) = 1050. Full disclosure - I was not the tester of this, but I have seen the screenshot of the test, and I have seen normal series heal more than 1050 on my Lugh before so it's consistent with my experience.Yes, everything should go into the same 200% cap - that should be a hard cap that encompasses all methods. I don't have Berith or Lugh to test those, though.
I haven't tested Berith, not sure if she's the same.
Hmm, you're right, I think I misunderstood what the master bonus is supposed to do then. Energy release raises the cap though, at least it did the last time I tested it, which admittedly was many many months ago.By the way, Andromeda's passive and Master Bonus are a complete mystery to me. They certainly don't have any effect on the healing cap. Simple proof, Andromeda heals 1600 by default and hard caps at 4800. 1600 * 3 = 4800. If Andromeda healed for 1500 by default with her passive and/or Master Bonus bringing it to 1600, then the Heal should cap at 4500...
So, the entire Master Bonus and that passive are entirely wasted. What a shame.
Also, for those who are interested in Atum's heal, I just tested last night that Atum's heal is indeed only 20% with 3000 cap - so you need 15k hp to take full advantage of it. Also, it appears that heal accessories raises both the cap and heal % and will work really well for Atum, 'cos with like just two +5% heal, you're at 30% heal with 3300 cap, so the breakpoint drops to 11k whereas normal ascension weapons actually raises the breakpoint. This is important if you use Atum to heal Lugh as Lugh's passive does not seem to circumvent the heal % - very very niche situation pertinent to two specific SSRs, please just ignore if you don't have or don't plan to get those himes. I just put information out there that I think is interesting, not necessarily 'cos I think it's helpful to a lot of ppl.
Honestly, I just post stuff that I thought might be interesting to others. I do amend stuff based on feedback, but only if I agree with it as well - I mean, this is a hobby, not like contract work I'm being paid for or something. I do acknowledge my errors, but most of the continuing criticisms in this case seem to revolve around whether the ascension heal % and the pride multiplier are useful enough information to be worth listing out, not whether or not I got something wrong. I have already listed multiple reasons why I did what I did but I can't please everyone unfortunately. Some of this feels less like discussion and more like a personal attack on where one stands on selective vs completeness when presenting information and it's just getting exhausting.Question.
If you have zero interest in feedback, criticism and discussion, why even post this thing on these public forums? Wouldn't it be more in line to just post to some Discord buddygroup and be happy in that social bubble?
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