That (questionable) honor belongs to Elaborate, hands down.Originally Posted by dreamlitz
That doesn't mean that Ascension is particularly good, though. I touched upon this in another thread lately, but to expand, here are requirements to make Ascension be a worthy stat:
1. You need to have Hime(s) who can make use out of it. Technically everyone has Andro, but then you run into:
2. You need to build a team with that/those specific Hime, without making your team suck.
3. Content needs to be the sort where having Heals makes a difference, ie. not a joke in difficulty for you (since if it is too easy, then you're just wasting Grid budget on something that does nothing for you). This might not be a big point since it's easy content that you clear anyway, why does it matter? The answer here is time taken.
4. Content needs to be healable (unlike say current Light Rag or AQ5 last boss).
ALL FOUR are required to make Ascension into a good stat. #1 is pure RNG (outside of MTs), #2 will probably need synergies (such as Thunder Aphro-Dian), and even if you clear those hurdles... #3 and #4 will constantly fluctuate, meaning that your hard work can go straight down the drain just because the content has changed. What should be noted is that I think DMM currently has like... five teams per element now? So building highly specialized teams will stop being an issue. Even after 6x Farming builds and 6x Burst Hour builds, you still have a whopping 18 highly specialized teams left, and I think you can even give them names so that you won't forget just what exact niche that team fills. At least, I hope that's a thing.
Patch notes-kun where are you...
Anyway. These four things make me veeeery iffy towards Ascension. Do I love my Light Grid that I use to heal Dark Rags? Yes. But that just means that #3 and #4 are currently just right, which might not be the case one week from now (Dark Olympia coming out). And, even though my Light Grid does great things, it outright prevents me from ever MVPing Dark Rag. With great Heals comes a great price, I guess I could say.
Though my lack of proper team certainly doesn't help. AAB Frey carry against content that doesn't really Rage is obviously not very ideal.
tl;dr; Is it possible to make Ascension into a good stat? Yes, yes it is. Is it as easy as just slapping some Ascension weapons in your Grid? Hell no it is not. Just like with Vigor, have a fucking plan.Ah, shit. You're right, I should've remembered the one-(wo)man Wind core. Yeah, no problem with Ascension there, Azazel clears problems #1 and #2 easily.
I'm uh, willing to blame Nutaku for withholding Azazel Awakening for my derp there if you are?I don't understand when I ever said anything about that?
The problem here isn't carrying Olympia raids - it's about outright time. Assuming Olympia are Rag-ish (and by that I mean, clear in about 10 minutes and drop 0.5 Globes), by leeching three raids at the same time you can earn 1.5 Globes per 10 minutes. This makes one Globe cost you ~6 minutes. Dejnov is making it sound like gathering up for 175 Globes on a monthly basis is easy, but that's ~19.5 hours per month. Now, that's perfectly manageable, being just ~40 minutes per day (of doing absolutely nothing else but farming Olympias). But, as we get more of them, you're gonna be farming multiple elements. Four elements are already ~78 hours a month, ~2.5 hours per day - EVERY day. Plus doing all the other stuff you're "expected" to run in Kamihime, like farming T2 Cores, Regalias, GO and AQs. That gets pretty rough, pretty fast.
Realistically speaking, you're going to be farming one weapon during the first rush of each element. Maybe two. But thinking about Grids with 5+ of the same Olympia weapon will effectively require you to drop other elements. And I think that should certainly be part of the discussion - root your expectations in reality.
And then there are people like Voodoo who will probably farm one MLB of each of the weapons per month until they have like eight of each - just because they can. But chances are pretty high anyone who is reading this is NOT one of those people.Yes, everything should go into the same 200% cap - that should be a hard cap that encompasses all methods. I don't have Berith or Lugh to test those, though.
By the way, Andromeda's passive and Master Bonus are a complete mystery to me. They certainly don't have any effect on the healing cap. Simple proof, Andromeda heals 1600 by default and hard caps at 4800. 1600 * 3 = 4800. If Andromeda healed for 1500 by default with her passive and/or Master Bonus bringing it to 1600, then the Heal should cap at 4500...
So, the entire Master Bonus and that passive are entirely wasted. What a shame.Question.
If you have zero interest in feedback, criticism and discussion, why even post this thing on these public forums? Wouldn't it be more in line to just post to some Discord buddygroup and be happy in that social bubble?
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Thread: Olympian weapons vs demon UE FLB
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I don't disagree with your points about ascension being largely situational, I was just annoyed at the comment about it being useless for wind, but it didn't seem to be intentional, so my bad for overreacting. Taco with their original game nonsense... Originally Posted by Slashley
I agree if you want 5+ of the same weapon in like 5-6 months, it will be pretty rough unless you neglect other stuff (or unless your union is so strong that you squish these things in a few minutes.) If you don't mind waiting though, you can stockpile your globes and just buy like 2 copies per month for almost half the cost (100 globes total for a full MLB vs. 175 for 4 copies per month.) It'll take you twice as long to get there, but yeah, it's a tradeoff, this game seems to punish you whenever you want to rush. Maybe that's not what Dejnov meant by marathon, I'll let him speak for himself, but just wanted to point out that that is an option.Realistically speaking, you're going to be farming one weapon during the first rush of each element. Maybe two. But thinking about Grids with 5+ of the same Olympia weapon will effectively require you to drop other elements. And I think that should certainly be part of the discussion - root your expectations in reality.
Actually, since I mentioned Lugh, I guess I should make sure ppl are aware that Lugh's passive technically isn't the same as regular ascension but a separate multiplier - if you stack up to 200% ascension on your grid and you put normal series accessories on her, it heals for 2100 not 1050 - i.e. it's 350 * (1 + 200% ascension) * (1 + 100% Lugh passive) = 2100, not 350 * (1 + min(200%, 200% ascension + 100% passive)) = 1050. Full disclosure - I was not the tester of this, but I have seen the screenshot of the test, and I have seen normal series heal more than 1050 on my Lugh before so it's consistent with my experience.Yes, everything should go into the same 200% cap - that should be a hard cap that encompasses all methods. I don't have Berith or Lugh to test those, though.
I haven't tested Berith, not sure if she's the same.
Hmm, you're right, I think I misunderstood what the master bonus is supposed to do then. Energy release raises the cap though, at least it did the last time I tested it, which admittedly was many many months ago.By the way, Andromeda's passive and Master Bonus are a complete mystery to me. They certainly don't have any effect on the healing cap. Simple proof, Andromeda heals 1600 by default and hard caps at 4800. 1600 * 3 = 4800. If Andromeda healed for 1500 by default with her passive and/or Master Bonus bringing it to 1600, then the Heal should cap at 4500...
So, the entire Master Bonus and that passive are entirely wasted. What a shame.
Also, for those who are interested in Atum's heal, I just tested last night that Atum's heal is indeed only 20% with 3000 cap - so you need 15k hp to take full advantage of it. Also, it appears that heal accessories raises both the cap and heal % and will work really well for Atum, 'cos with like just two +5% heal, you're at 30% heal with 3300 cap, so the breakpoint drops to 11k whereas normal ascension weapons actually raises the breakpoint. This is important if you use Atum to heal Lugh as Lugh's passive does not seem to circumvent the heal % - very very niche situation pertinent to two specific SSRs, please just ignore if you don't have or don't plan to get those himes. I just put information out there that I think is interesting, not necessarily 'cos I think it's helpful to a lot of ppl.
Honestly, I just post stuff that I thought might be interesting to others. I do amend stuff based on feedback, but only if I agree with it as well - I mean, this is a hobby, not like contract work I'm being paid for or something. I do acknowledge my errors, but most of the continuing criticisms in this case seem to revolve around whether the ascension heal % and the pride multiplier are useful enough information to be worth listing out, not whether or not I got something wrong. I have already listed multiple reasons why I did what I did but I can't please everyone unfortunately. Some of this feels less like discussion and more like a personal attack on where one stands on selective vs completeness when presenting information and it's just getting exhausting.Question.
If you have zero interest in feedback, criticism and discussion, why even post this thing on these public forums? Wouldn't it be more in line to just post to some Discord buddygroup and be happy in that social bubble?
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There are now three teams that can run ascension in their grids and really don't sacrifice large amounts of fire power. Thunder has Marduk, Taphro, and Dian Cecht, Wind has Azzazel and Gaia, and Light has Sol. I'm not sure about Dark, Fire, and Water as I don't main them and am unfamiliar with their skill sets. Both Thunder and Wind has a Hime(s) that brings group regeneration AND firepower to the mix and are considered core to their operation. Ascension weapons (in the third skill) are very valuable for these grids. For Light, Sol is still considered a fairly essential character, since you have no reasonable source of damage cut. Ascension upgrades are essential if you want to sustain. Being able to sustain is how you get MVP in Dark Rags/Content. Originally Posted by Slashley
My own initial interest is only 2 thunder guns (potentially 3) and 1 water lance (potentially 3) as an initial investment and upgrade to my current grid. The labyrinth water lance may also reduce the number I need (or me finally transitioning to a glaive grid for water). I might think of 5 thunder hammers as slot fillers to build a thunder hammer grid in the near future, but they wouldn't be used long term and would be swapped out for other Hime weapons. So I basically need a grand total of 3 initially and 6 probably in the far future. Seems damn easy to do for a vet.The problem here isn't carrying Olympia raids - it's about outright time. Assuming Olympia are Rag-ish (and by that I mean, clear in about 10 minutes and drop 0.5 Globes), by leeching three raids at the same time you can earn 1.5 Globes per 10 minutes. This makes one Globe cost you ~6 minutes. Dejnov is making it sound like gathering up for 175 Globes on a monthly basis is easy, but that's ~19.5 hours per month. Now, that's perfectly manageable, being just ~40 minutes per day (of doing absolutely nothing else but farming Olympias). But, as we get more of them, you're gonna be farming multiple elements. Four elements are already ~78 hours a month, ~2.5 hours per day - EVERY day. Plus doing all the other stuff you're "expected" to run in Kamihime, like farming T2 Cores, Regalias, GO and AQs. That gets pretty rough, pretty fast.
Realistically speaking, you're going to be farming one weapon during the first rush of each element. Maybe two. But thinking about Grids with 5+ of the same Olympia weapon will effectively require you to drop other elements. And I think that should certainly be part of the discussion - root your expectations in reality.
My initial point is that if you're not a veteran, you can run these raids and pick up weapons to upgrade your grids in place of advent or union weapons. If you're in that boat, you'll have to focus on a single element (every journeyman player has to anyways) and these are fine to get you that solid first grid. After that, these are also fine replacements to flesh out your other grids. For veteran players, these are fine to tailor your grid to phantom weapon combos that were not possible earlier (without having to waste dollars on miracle tickets). For those who are ticketing their grid (specific OP Hime weapons); these are not going to find a big place in their grid, but neither did Advent, Union or most Hime weapons. Whales can safely ignore, veterans will tailor a small amount into their grids to mostly pick up vigor, and journeyman will focus on one or two elements that they absolutely need to finish/augment their main grid for clearing content.
I actually don't know why I had to spell this out... as it's always assumed. The needs of the player and effort involved predicate how or what you can do with any advice. To say that the advice isn't correct or valuable as it isn't immutable in all situations and for all players is a non-argument. That is always the case. To have such disclaimers over each and every piece of advice given on a forum so that everyone can cover their ass smacks me as over-lawyering the situation... and you do know who is the first group to be killed in every social uprising...
Dejnov.
Disclaimer: The above information is not intended to be grid investment advice. It is for informational purposes only, you should not construe any such information or other material as legal, tax, investment, financial, or other advice. Nothing contained in any of my posts constitutes a solicitation, recommendation, endorsement, or offery by Dejnov or any third party service provider to buy or sell any securities or weapon grid investment instruments in this or in any other jurisdiction in which such solicitation or offer would be unlawful under any grid investment laws of such jurisdiction.
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Happy Slashley!!!
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So, now that a loooooooooot of time has passed (what, nine months?) my Phul Gun and Ophiel Lance grids are shaping up. And I have to admit... damn that is some impressive stuff.
It is fully possible to do great damage even when debuffs don't land. And when debuffs DO land... you're hitting damage caps. Which is fun to watch. While it does requires VERY specific stuff, such as multiple healers preferably and certain type of content... well, luckily, the most grindy content in the game just happens to fit into that certain type of content. That is to say, the raids.
Such a shame that they don't offer the same options to the rest of the elements, really. I don't understand why didn't they make same skillset weapons for all elements. But oh well. I guess Vigor grids are a privilege of exactly two elements (assuming you drew a healer or two for that element), except for omegawhales who can use Hime weapon Grids.
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Ophiel Lance and Phul Gun are some of the best choices for a fairly free to play grid. I also believe that Wind with the Bethor Bows and Glaives and Dark with their Gun are also great choices (second tier due to pride based and not vigor based). Only Light and Fire didn't get great standout weapons from the release of Guardians (they're choices aren't bad, but more meh).
From a weapon skill optimal choice structure for the eight weapons you can slot into your grid (excluding Soul weapon and phantom weapon) is 8 assault skills, 3 exceed skills, 4 ascension skills, 4 vigor skills and 4 defender skills (due to no exceed, vigor, assault weapon choices).
That gets you nearly max exceed overcap, nearly max ascension overcap and 32-40% vigor (depending on weapon choice), while maintaining full assault and getting some minor defender. Hitpoints should mostly come from the Eidolon grid/Accessories near end game; some effort from weapons is always appreciated though.
From the above list, only water and thunder have a chance of doing that skill selection for free (due to the ophiel lance and phul gun alone); while, I believe, only Light can do it from a full phantom weapon selection option (with Light using Poseidon and Tishtrya lances) mostly due to the Tish lance.
Dejnov.
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For F2P grids that just started on August (Mean Missing every event weapon), Is light Staff worth getting for?
and if you already traded for Ophiel Lance monthly, would it be good to also trade for Ophiel Axe? Both looks good
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Originally Posted by AlterX
Ophiel Lance is much better than the Ophiel Axe as the Phantom Lance is a better grid to build. Axe's aren't bad, just not as good as the lance.
Dejnov.
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The problem with the Lance is that it has no HP. This makes you extremely squishy. So running 5x Lance + Phantom Lance + 3x Axe would not be a bad thing...
... if you could somehow fit and Exceed or two in there. But Water has always had Exceed trouble, even more now that Sloth isn't available.
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Right, maybe 1 or 2 Axe wouldn't hurt then.
Light guardian weapons is kinda on the so-so side, but Since I am chasing all 6 elements, Shold I trade for light staff? Already traded 2x Glaives.
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