Thread: plat units = to blacks

i disagree. It devaluates nadia quite a lot considering the stuff that does replace her is usually a lot cheaper then the heavies that generally replace gellius (there aren't even that many situation were he gets totally outperformed).

Let's see....what roles does Nadia fill ? Antiswarm , dueling , aoe dps , yes ? Know what else is a good antiswarm > Aoe assasination. Nadia is good at being a duelist becasue of her high stats , yeah ?. U know what else outduels her vs high reisstance units ? True damage duelists.
Oh for that matter , true damage aoe dps outperforms her at doing dps as well vs resistanfce mobs.


The fact is , no matter how much u want to make her look op in every situation , there are plenty of units that can outperform her in her selected roles in certain situations. More so then the units that can outperform gellius in his role.


Do you disagree ?

Originally Posted by lolix

i disagree. It devaluates nadia quite a lot considering the stuff that does replace her is usually a lot cheaper then the heavies that generally replace gellius (there aren't even that many situation were he gets totally outperformed).

Let's see....what roles does Nadia fill ? Antiswarm , dueling , aoe dps , yes ? Know what else is a good antiswarm > Aoe assasination. Nadia is good at being a duelist becasue of her high stats , yeah ?. U know what else outduels her vs high reisstance units ? True damage duelists.
Oh for that matter , true damage aoe dps outperforms her at doing dps as well vs resistanfce mobs.


The fact is , no matter how much u want to make her look op in every situation , there are plenty of units that can outperform her in her selected roles in certain situations. More so then the units that can outperform gellius in his role.


Do you disagree ?

I see that you continue to ignore the entire point of what a hybrid unit entails.

It's not that Nadia is the best at all of those things (though she is definitely the best anti-swarm), it's that she can do all of those things to begin with. Name a true damage duelist that can also handle themselves against a swarm. An AOE assassin like AW Berna is a dodgetanker with no drawbacks, thanks to her rogue retreat passive, and therefore theoretically *could* replace Nadia, but unlike Nadia, that doesn't mean she'll fail at stalling or DPS if RNG is unlucky. Even then, you'd still need a few mages to even come close to the DPS that Nadia provides.

And you once again ignored how Nadia is barely more costly than a mage, let alone a heavy + 3 mage combo.

@lolix:

more than one person here has experience with both of these units, maxed out and SAW'd. your staunch refusal to accept their opinion despite having no experience with Nadia herself, combined with your poor reasoning skills and seeming inability to rationalize logical arguments, this leads me to believe you're just arbitrarily saying stuff because you really, really want to be right.

i have used sybilla, olivia, clissa, lyla, erenia, thetis, rakshasa, alice, cornelia, aw prince, etc. on mine and others accounts, many of them at max level or high level AW and with AW skill. even having had experience with all these powerful duelists and fighters, i can definitively say that nadia offers something quite distinct from all of them - something that NONE of them can replicate. and that something is hardly niche; permanent AoE with a considerable ATK/DEF modifier is amazing, as much as you seem to want to deny it.

re: true damage - it's pretty obvious you don't know what you're on about. here's a list of the 'true damage duelists'i that take up a melee slot, and if i forgot someone it's probably not worth mentioning.

claudia - okay damage, cannot handle swarms, cannot tank well.
clissa - good damage, proc chance based. cannot handle swarms. cannot tank near nadia's level.
rakshasa, black majin - reusable token does lots of true damage on low cd, but cannot be healed. cannot handle swarms.
nezha, black hermit - has the stats, but skill(and true damage) only lasts 15s, and has long cd. mediocre with swarms. only blocks while skill is up, otherwise block 0.
hina - low proc chance, mediocre with swarms, low defensive stats, low damage
some swordmasters - one shot skill for high true damage. good against swarms, but not constant ones. can be difficult or impossible to use depending on layout. lacks defensive stats.
sabine - good damage, mediocre with swarms, low defenses.

so yes, pointless comparison since nothing compares. at all. also, nadia damages pretty much everything in the game except an enemy type that NEVER swarms(high-tier golems), i'd say she's pretty solid for low, mid and even high grade swarming.

as for assassination procs, i assume you're talking about berna? she is good anti-swarm, yes, but it is also on a CD and berna herself is a pretty shoddy tank. also, a black. and assassination is worthless when the enemy has .0000001% chance of getting affected(like golems) if you were worried about these mythical golem swarms i talked about before.



re: gellius versus other heavies. the irony is, gellius is actually pretty niche compared to the likes of dina, who nutaku does not yet have. her SAW is pretty epic and her body is big enough to tank pretty much whatever - if the enemies don't die first. yes, this is not what people ask for in an HA, and people complain about the male gold a lot, but i'd honestly use dina over gellius 90% of the time. the other 10% of the time being enemies with over 5kish in damage(6kish in my case; I have lots of passives and b. iris).

re: black iris - she has a very high basic level of healing but will actually heal less than most other healers in the end, even with AWS. her real power, and why she's so broken, is her massive defense buff. against magic you'd be better off with camilla or saria. in fact, saria was the most used unit in the furfur event(demon god tier, ultra difficult). pretty op.

Yeah, I guess black Iris' buff doesn't necessarily negate Saria's ridiculously useful skill.

So just Nanaly, I guess.

I think lolix's favorite point is his insane love for solano and her true damage coupled with gellius tanking the mobs for solano to kill. because 700+ (with buffs and all I guess she'd reach 1k?) true damage is better than 2k aoe smashing physical attack 24/7 since every mob that has to be killed by nadia will easily have more than 1k def.

also apparently gellius is such an amazing tank that when he blocks 5 onis/ghouls and support dps fail to kill them in time, all the other ghouls/onis/kamaitachi can't just run past him and they'll not be an issue at all, yup.

and because of all that, lolix cannot accept that nadia is considered best plat since gellius is better than nadia at what they're supposed to do. since nadia's ability to both tank boss + wipe creeps at the same time is not as good as gellius's ability to facetank said boss and creeps.

@Karsuman : feel free to look back on my replies. I never denied that nadia is an amazing unit. Why do people think that me believing a unit is better then another , means that the other unit is crap ? No. it's not. And nobody denied that her insane dps and monster stats are ....well ...insane.
Second of all , unless nadia does something more then i've saw in the videos , she seems pretty straightforward in her use. It's not hard to deduce the way she's being used , but i'll agree that having her on nutaku would give us a better view of what she can do. Maybe using her feels better then what she looks on paper

Third , people pointed out that gellius is situational because he does no damage from the role of a tank and that tanks like deine/dina (2 blacks) are better because of the dps. I personally disagree , since i generally like specialized units over hybrids , and i'd generally take a defensive tank over a offensive "tank". While that is somewhat true (sometimes , you do need damage) , it doesn't change the fact that gellius is the best tank in the game and the only one that can facetank everything at that , and yes , he will need more dps support , but at the same time , he will also need less healing support.

Regardless , i pointed out that Nadia also has situations where she will struggle and situation where she can be replaced just as well by cheaper stuff. That doesn't mean she's a bad unit , but it does mean that she won't be deployed in every situation either(especially with her costs).

In the end each to his own i guess. The fact stands that both are black tier which is what this thread is about in the firstplace. Doesn't change the fact that dififerent people will have different opinion , and different styles of playing the game. I personally favour gellius over nadia , but whatever..

@edit : sora wtf are you even talking about ? solano was a random example that happened to fit for my argument. Also , you're missing the point where nadia also needs a blocker behind her to make use of her insane dps for beefier units

Because you once again have not proved how Gellius is better than Nadia at anything except tanking golems.

Solano doing true damage to a group does not make Gellius better than Nadia.
Olivie being a better duelist than Nadia does not make Gellius better than Nadia.
AW Berna etc. etc.

You keep sidetracking and not addressing the main issue of how the "anti-situational yet inefficient" Gellius is somehow better than the "situational yet effective" Nadia.

the point is , u can place gellius on every map that requires a heavy , with very minor differences in results because the cost difference between heavies is rather small anyway. The main difference would at best be how fast u can kill stuff if u place dina/deine instead of gellius. But that's all. Gellius won't lose u the map anyway , because even if he lacks the dps , he tanks better and blocks more


Nadia can be replaced on maps that require a duelist/anti swarmer , especially if it's an early rush. Yes , she's amazing at what she does , but realistically speaking , not all maps will require her firepower , and placing cheaper units will be better. Gellius is not like that. He can be placed on any map that requires heavy , with minor differences in outcomes

I have found myself with a few plat duelists just curious in nutaku. What are the best duelists going by their skill awakening that will come out at some point.

- - - Updated - - -

Feel free to also add any event plats that may be coming up.

Originally Posted by switch

I have found myself with a few plat duelists just curious in nutaku. What are the best duelists going by their skill awakening that will come out at some point.

- - - Updated - - -

Feel free to also add any event plats that may be coming up.

Lilia.

Well, any princess not named Themis, really, but Lilia is love.

Also Rika for true damage.