Thread: What to do next?

Originally Posted by kayfabe

Nah, see, I'd argue that Range Up witches don't deal very good damage which is why the class as a whole struggles to stay relevant beyond the highly contrived scenario that is Wall of Magic. That map is the only time you see a bunch of wolves and red goblins and think to yourself "Man, what I need here is some witches!" and is therefore not representative of what witches are actually good at. Adele and Despara may be more expensive but when fully SU'd they deal nearly twice the damage without taking up a ton of slots like a pack of lesser witches would.

Admittedly, outside of War of Magic I don't use Yuyu that much but that is simply because I have AW Despara and Adele. The former is just beyond comparing to the other witches and the latter has Team HP Up buff so there generally isn't room for Yuyu (rarely would you need a 3rd witch). However, even if you do have those 2, if UP Cost is a factor and you need early magic damage, Yuyu's hard to beat.

And "a pack of lesser witches" is literally never used anywhere other than War of Magic if you don't have Yuyu/Despara (Adele is too costly and doesn't have the 1 sec initial timer that Despara has to make up for it).

Also, the class is still quite relevant, I use them in several daily maps (Adele/Despara combo is used in both Golden Armor G and Spirit Rescue G; the former is especially useful to have lower cost magic damage with all those armored units right from the start) and some event maps they're helpful. Witches are used for early magic damage and their slow, that's their niche, and it's admittedly not super commonly needed but it's not particularly rare either.

Right, but note how we're in agreement on which two witches are relevant here. People rarely use a pack of witches, because that's expensive and takes an impractical number of slots relative to the damage output you end up with. Adele & Despara, however, can briefly approximate the damage output of two Range Up witches from a single slot with proper skill timing. That's way more in line with how actual deployment patterns typically turn out.

I have both Adele and Yuyu awakened. Still place Yuyu instead of Adele most of time. Low cost more speed more sustained damage FTW! And utility of hitting thing out of reach when needed is really handy.

So, continue having fun doing less damage, I guess?

Honestly, a lot of the time your witch does not need to be good, just mincosted. There's a good reason i still use Nenya on DMM sometimes even though i have Belinda and Cloris at max CC and 12 cost.

Originally Posted by kayfabe

So, continue having fun doing less damage, I guess?

Thing is, I do more damage with Yuyu. AFK farm and all

ZeroZet has a point. For Adele to pass Yuyu in damage, she needs to have skill active. Yuyu has higher attack outside skill AND slight Attack Speed advantage, along with lower cost and ability to increase range if needed. Generally you're not using Witches (besides Despara) for burst damage, you're using them for early magic damage + Slow effect. For that purpose, Yuyu is simply better. Also, Adele, being a platinum unit, does not have instant skill available. Her skill has 12.5 sec initial, 25 sec re-use at max skill level, with 45 second duration. This means for 45 seconds, assuming you actually HAVE her out for a full minute AND have her skill maxed, she will have more damage output than Yuyu. Without skill her damage advantage decreases due to longer skill initial and shorter duration, and that's still utilizing multiple assumptions that do not apply to some players.

I utilize Adele simply due to the ALL HP UP buff, if UP early on is tighter, she's getting swapped for Yuyu, hands-down. Minimum of 2 less cost, and she's more likely to be CR'd due to being gold instead of platinum, and outside of skill she has more bang for the buck.

I legit can't remember ever needing a min-cost witch outside of Wall of Magic, so color me skeptical. You also don't actually need a full minute to make up the damage gap because her attack lead is huge under skill and her deficit without it is bullshit small--in the 12 to 25 seconds Yuyu is trying to run up the score against an unskilled Adele you're talking about around 400-800+ extra damage total and then Adele shifts into gear and starts beating out Yuyu by more than 400 damage per shot. You guys are conflating zero variance with having higher overall damage when the reality is Adele's skill duration is long enough that she spends more time with her skill up than down on many, many maps. Yuyu's only real advantage over Adele is time-on-target due to her skill and low UP cost. If she's not going to be hitting things Adele can't reach at all then it's almost comically unrealistic to expect her to deal more damage. That's why I keep saying her advantages are significant in Wall of Magic and virtually nowhere else.

I'll say "range increase" does play a big factor in many maps but then I'll bring Belinda > Yuyu on those maps.
Yuyu's increase range just isn't significant enough to justify the slot.
And if its super duper fast witch deployment, its almost always silver witches that cover it.

Add the 7% increase dmg which brings her to 570 which puts her only below despara, and the "most useful" witch imho.
And if you have despara, you will definitely bring belinda along for that 7% to all witches buff.
But the most important of all, HAVE YOU SEEN HER AFF ART + SAW ANIMATION? Its freaking 2 witches in one, top value pick.

Screw the other witches, belinda is all i need.

Originally Posted by kayfabe

I legit can't remember ever needing a min-cost witch outside of Wall of Magic, so color me skeptical. You also don't actually need a full minute to make up the damage gap because her attack lead is huge under skill and her deficit without it is bullshit small--in the 12 to 25 seconds Yuyu is trying to run up the score against an unskilled Adele you're talking about around 400-800+ extra damage total and then Adele shifts into gear and starts beating out Yuyu by more than 400 damage per shot. You guys are conflating zero variance with having higher overall damage when the reality is Adele's skill duration is long enough that she spends more time with her skill up than down on many, many maps. Yuyu's only real advantage over Adele is time-on-target due to her skill and low UP cost. If she's not going to be hitting things Adele can't reach at all then it's almost comically unrealistic to expect her to deal more damage. That's why I keep saying her advantages are significant in Wall of Magic and virtually nowhere else.

OK, I worded it poorly. Yes Adele will catch up long before her 45 seconds run out. The "Yuyu does more damage" is applicable ONLY IF you are semi-afk or otherwise not using Adele's skill. Range Up is undoubtedly MUCH more situational than Attack Up, nobody will debate that. Of course, the only reasons to even USE Yuyu over Adele are Cost and Range Up, and IF YOU AREN'T using skills, then damage. ZeroZet said he's afk'ing maps, therefore Yuyu outdamages Adele due to no skills involved. If you're paying attention and you want damage, Adele's obviously the superior choice unless Range Up is needed. I think we're agreeing here, and just hitting different points. OK?