Solomon's Ring damage is affected by Eidolon bonuses

[President Ramu]

I know this isn't game-breaking or anything and she's still clearly trash (...for now), but I thought you guys might find it interesting.

I've been using Solomon with my mostly Wind Element team (Gaia/Shiva/Hermes/Nike), and noticed that with her skill "Solomon Ring" which does an attack in each element, the elemental damage is affected by the Eidolon(s) you have equipped. For example, when I'm just doing an Anzu run and thus have no "[Element] Attack +40%" effect, the damage is about 1500 per each element's attack with a slight decrease for the opponent's strong element and increase for the opponent's weak element. But when I have a particular element's Eidolon equipped, say with "Water ATK +40%", no matter what element I have equipped to Solomon her Solomon's Ring skill damage goes up during the part of the skill where she casts that element.

Why is this interesting? Because several Eidolons, like Behemoth (+30% to Wind/Water/Light) or Takemikazuchi (+30% to Wind/Thunder/Dark) increase multiple attributes at once. And during Solomon's ring, ALL of those elements are buffed as well.

It's still early days so I haven't taken the time to spreadsheet up how much different that is than just a straight single element increase on a single element skill, or written up a 10 page treatise on how this totally makes her OP. But it's a neat effect and I figured since very few people play Solomon they might not be aware of it.

[sanahtlig]

Exactly as expected.

So...?

[President Ramu]

You really shouldn't take that tone. I'm honestly surprised you even know who Solomon is, seeing as by your own testimony everything you haven't personally experienced doesn't exist and all.

The POINT is that very few characters can take advantage of multi-element bonuses. While an Eidolon with multiple bonuses can be good for a team that isn't single-element, it's rare if not unique to Solomon only that she gets ALL of the bonuses regardless of what element she herself is. It's worth making note of.

[sanahtlig]

You really shouldn't take that tone. I'm honestly surprised you even know who Solomon is, seeing as by your own testimony everything you haven't personally experienced doesn't exist and all.

The POINT is that very few characters can take advantage of multi-element bonuses. While an Eidolon with multiple bonuses can be good for a team that isn't single-element, it's rare if not unique to Solomon only that she gets ALL of the bonuses regardless of what element she herself is. It's worth making note of.

If I understand correctly (and this is just a re-discovery of basic game mechanics), a 30% bonus to 3/6 elements would equate to a 15% damage bonus overall (single eidolon). You could've gotten a 40% bonus with typical skills and a matching eidolon, plus some other useful effect (like a 20% HP bonus). Furthermore, for weapon skills, you'd get 1/6 of the effect, so a grid of ten assault skillLV6 SRs would give you a 10% bonus instead of 60%. That's pretty terrible, and is exactly why Solomon is regarded as not useful.

But congratulations on your discovery, I suppose?

[President Ramu]

If I understand correctly (and this is just a re-discovery of basic game mechanics), a 30% bonus to 3/6 elements would equate to a 15% damage bonus overall (single eidolon). You could've gotten a 40% bonus with typical skills and a matching eidolon, plus some other useful effect (like a 20% HP bonus). Furthermore, for weapon skills, you'd get 1/6 of the effect, so a grid of ten assault skillLV6 SRs would give you a 10% bonus instead of 60%. That's pretty terrible, and is exactly why Solomon is regarded as not useful.

But congratulations on your discovery, I suppose?

You don't understand correctly, because yet again your "theoretical" and incorrect knowledge of the game has led you to making further wrong statements based on your wrong assumptions. Seriously, do you even play this game?

- Attribute damage bonuses are not the same as straight attack bonuses. Remember that whole conversation in the other thread about how "Character Eidolons aren't as good as Element Eidolons"? So your "some other useful effect" statement is wrong on the face of it, because it's not relevant here.

- Additionally, as Solomon's Ring's elements are independent of Solomon's Element, you don't have to choose. My Wind-Element Solomon is already getting the 30% bonus from Behemoth, Solomon's Ring is getting a separate bonus to two other elements that the Wind element himes on my team don't get to take advantage of.

- My entire grid is Wind element weapons with Level 5-10 Storm Assault, but Wind damage isn't affected by them during Solomon's Ring. I'd have been happy to explain that to you if you had asked instead of assuming.

So really, seriously, either play the game or ask questions in good faith. Because this is starting to get out of hand.

[sanahtlig]

You don't understand correctly, because yet again your "theoretical" and incorrect knowledge of the game has led you to making further wrong statements based on your wrong assumptions. Seriously, do you even play this game?

- Attribute damage bonuses are not the same as straight attack bonuses. Remember that whole conversation in the other thread about how "Character Eidolons aren't as good as Element Eidolons"? So your "some other useful effect" statement is wrong on the face of it, because it's not relevant here.

- Additionally, as Solomon's Ring's elements are independent of Solomon's Element, you don't have to choose. My Wind-Element Solomon is already getting the 30% bonus from Behemoth, Solomon's Ring is getting a separate bonus to two other elements that the Wind element himes on my team don't get to take advantage of.

- My entire grid is Wind element weapons with Level 5-10 Storm Assault, but Wind damage isn't affected by them during Solomon's Ring. I'd have been happy to explain that to you if you had asked instead of assuming.

So really, seriously, either play the game or ask questions in good faith. Because this is starting to get out of hand.

Feel free to illustrate these cumulative bonuses in a spreadsheet. Either my understanding of mechanics is flawed, or your explanation in this post is misleading / inaccurate. The JP wiki goes into some detail on this skill and how it interacts with elemental bonuses.

Although I can tell your pride is simmering, asking 'so what'--novelty, significance--is actually a standard question to a junior scientist presenting their findings. If you can't handle a basic question like that without going on a tirade, then you're not cut out for research.

And no, I didn't single you out for that question because I hate you. I'm not petty like that. I'm unsure the reciprocal is true, however.

[President Ramu]

This has nothing to do with my "pride" and everything to do with you continually spouting misinformation.

Everything you post is suspect, because it continually shows you have no grasp of how the game actually works. You don't know the characters, you don't know how the systems interact, you just guess based on something you think you read on the JP wiki and then extrapolate from there. "Even a junior scientist" knows better than to guess, let alone argue against empirical data using nonsense you came up with in a vacuum.

I'm not making an entire spreadsheet to prove you wrong, how about you just go into the game and test literally anything you've said and come back with some real data? You're not the only person who reads the wiki, but I'd assert that either you're not as good at math or reading Japanese as the people who do.

[sanahtlig]

I'm not making an entire spreadsheet to prove you wrong, how about you just go into the game and test literally anything you've said and come back with some real data?

Because you're the one who cares and I don't? Why do you even bother posting all this useless trash-talk? I'm interested in game mechanics, but not so interested in this peacock strutting you get into whenever I post in a topic you're participating in. If you have something useful to share, surely you can do it without making silly, irrelevant accusations about me in literally every thread?

"Even a junior scientist" knows better than to guess, let alone argue against empirical data using nonsense you came up with in a vacuum.

I 'guess' because I'm confident that if I'm wrong, someone will point it out. That's the whole point of a discussion forum. There's no shame in being wrong, and I welcome challenges to my viewpoints. That's the difference in values between me and you.

An expert isn't allowed to be wrong because they're relied on as a source of information. Fortunately, I'm no expert on this game, so I can say whatever I want with little consequence--except for earning the ire of people like you, I suppose? I wonder though if your perception is more of a confirmation bias--you expect me to be wrong, so you interpret ambiguous cues in a way that pins any misunderstanding on me. I've seen a few examples of that.

I suppose that's neither here nor there though. But uh, congratulations on derailing your own topic.

[dreadpin]

just wondering.... if anyone picking solomon just for sake of master bonus (abilities dmg+6%), my arthur and dark amon skills are hitting 40-50k... so 6% worth it?

[President Ramu]

I 'guess' because I'm confident that if I'm wrong, someone will point it out. That's the whole point of a discussion forum. There's no shame in being wrong, and I welcome challenges to my viewpoints. That's the difference in values between me and you.

Furthermore, for weapon skills, you'd get 1/6 of the effect, so a grid of ten assault skillLV6 SRs would give you a 10% bonus instead of 60%.

This is wrong. This is an entirely wrong statement. You say it like it's true, but it's not. And if I didn't already know that you're full of shit, I'd believe you.

That's the problem here, you're not asking, you're telling. And what you're telling is false. If you want to pretend you're just "having a discussion", at least have the good sense to hedge your bets and not contradict yourself on the same page.