Thread: Affection Should Be Reworked

Originally Posted by JMich

Buying common or uncommon would still cost the same, other than the final points where epic/legendary may have a bit of overflow. But you should be able to get a few such drops from PVP and/or quests.
Being able to buy epic and/or legendary affection items means that instead of needing 10 days to have enough affection to max a girl, you need 4 or 5 instead. Not that you need less cash (which may still be an issue, though not sure why). All in all, compared to the 2.0 update, raising affection is slightly easier now, though still much harder than it was before the 2.0 update.

You guys seriously dont get the problem here. The amount of money you need to spend to raise a level and the amount of money you get as a reward is an absolute joke!
As I said beofre, in just one freakin day i lost 9 millions, how much do you think i made in this past day? Something about 400k. In other words, if I dont spend my whole day on this game the affection system is worthless for me. I dont see the fun in farming money for weeks to raise one girl that then gives me literally nothing in comparison.

My main problem is that the amount of money you have to spend is enourmes while the amount of money you get is an absolute joke. Stephanie gives 890 bucks at level 3!!!
Do you know how much money i spend to reach that point? millions...
As I said before, defend this bullshit and play your new money farming simulator, I'm out....

Originally Posted by Eversor86

You just all need to take into consideration one thing, one thing only, a thing that devs care only about in this game, at least based on what they were telling me multiple times on discord.
The only thing they care about is core players.

Wow, man... You're Insaneis, right? I don't know if you said this on purpose to bring negativity here or if you just misunderstood what Kaos spent so long time explaining you, but it's false that they do only care for core players.
A quick search provide various quotes on this matter. For example, on 11th September:
Makuro: "Anyway, it's not relevant to discuss if the game should be balanced for casuals or pros, your goal is to give everyone a good experience, not one or the other.
Kaos: yes, and that's why we need to take time to push the changes".

Maybe the sentence you misunderstood (or purposely twist?) is this one: "I don't want to create a feature that will take a lot of time just to satisfy a few players. I want first to create stuff that will satisfy the most of our players. my time isn't infinite." (emphasis is mine)?
If so, a careful reading of this statement should make it clear that they don't think only about core players. But they naturally think first about them, which any good businessman will tell you is perfectly fair.

Originally Posted by Eversor86

As a side note 2: if you talk a bit with devs, you will get a feeling they are kinda full of themselves, whatever they fuck up, they will tell you it wasn't a fuck up, but a change necessary to accommodate future changes to make game better, etc. Whatever people complain about that they changed, they will repair it in convoluted way, to like make you think they are fixing the problem while you could argue they don't (like this whole affection thing).

Lol, seriously? I was reading all your conversations with Kaos on Discord when they happened, and i was more under the impression that you were the one kinda full of himself. I mean: you, a programer (so, not a game designer, are you?), a single player, you know better than the game design team that get the entirety of the players' data (and know their behaviours) and has knowledge of the plans for future (short and long term) features?
If yes, I tip my hat to you. But more likely, you're full of yourself
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying the dev team didn't make any mistake, but the fact that you call them "full of themselves" - despite they spent more than 1 hour discussing with you, answering your questions and explaining their point of view - feels inapproriate.

Originally Posted by Eversor86

As a side note 3: I think this game requires the most work or real money spent on kobans to unlock girls/their affection scenes, and this cost now goes up with each new girl [...].

For your information, they said they're gonna work on that.

The fix came yesterday and i lost 9 million to raise two affection points during that time, and you are seriously asking where the problem is? Jesus christ i dont care anymore if you defend this bullshit. I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks... thats a huge problem for me. If you have the time to collect money 24/7 thats good for you. I dont have that amount the time to solve my income problem (ingame).

Well, the point is that you don't have to spend 9 millions everyday. You spend what you earn. I think with this new system, depending on how many girls you have and how often you collect money (don't forget that the main source of income now are fighting the boss, not the harem), an average player should spend between 2 and 7 days to raise a girl from 0* to 3*, which seem perfectly fine by me.
If you happen to have more detailled calculation than my rough estimation, I'd appreciate you share it
Also, keep in mind that they said they proceed by iterative adjustments. Further fine tuning will probably come in a not so far future after they evaluate the in-game effects of yesterday patch.
Oh, and for the record, I don't spend more than 20 minutes per day on the game. Yet I make more than 1.5M per day (I have 75 girls and i'm in world 9. More than 1M of my incomes come from fighting Finalmecia). Maybe you're in a different situation, but 20 minutes per day seems hardly unachievable, imho.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Wow, man... You're Insaneis, right? I don't know if you said this on purpose to bring negativity here or if you just misunderstood what Kaos spent so long time explaining you, but it's false that they do only care for core players.

I wont lie. I do want to bring a bit of negativity here. Cause people suger coat devs like you, and it gives me diabetes. If a small kinda incoherent dev team (as in from what people told me every one of them is only good in one field, and has no clue about other people fields, they don't have anyone with good management skills so they often wait one for another, etc.) tells you they care first for core players, you can basically read it as they care only about them.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Maybe the sentence you misunderstood (or purposely twist?) is this one: "I don't want to create a feature that will take a lot of time just to satisfy a few players. I want first to create stuff that will satisfy the most of our players. my time isn't infinite." (emphasis is mine)?
If so, a careful reading of this statement should make it clear that they don't think only about core players. But they naturally think first about them, which any good businessman will tell you is perfectly fair.

Why do you take things out of context? The feature was a challenge troll, that would scale up with player levels, easy to implement (so dev lies that its time consuming), we even had a big (later deleted) conversation with ideas how to do it exactly. Something that would let people who want a challenge not one-shot kill enemies in PvP/story-trolls, something to spent battle energy on when you have all girls dropped and all of them upgraded.

Heck the challenge-troll idea came to life instantly after the same dev you quoted told me they will never fix difficulty in story.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying the dev team didn't make any mistake, but the fact that you call them "full of themselves" - despite they spent more than 1 hour discussing with you, answering your questions and explaining their point of view - feels inapproriate.

But in that more than 1 hour of discussion, I got the feeling of them (him) being full of themselves (himself). My feeling after talking with Kaos is that he basically doesn't like people with a different opinions, and instead of maybe admitting they could do things better, try to suger-coat what they did as being a basement for future changes, to use his own words. I mean I am a bit full of myself too, which lets me spot another one similar to me easier ;P.

As a side note (cause we all love them lol): The biggest affection issue is its cost, how fast we can acquire gifts was an side issue that became important cause of the extreme cost in the first place. What this update did is band-aided the side issue, leaving main issue mostly untouched. I say mostly cause PvP free gift drops can help a bit, but how it helps is more or less static, thus it gets less and less helpful with rising cost.

I don't know any other game where the more characters you have, the harder it is to upgrade them. The idea itself seems stupid. But then we don't really use more than 3 characters in HH. So one could argue that the "default" ideas about character collecting games shouldn't apply to HH.

In conclusion: I am full of myself to a certain degree. But so are the devs or at least Koas himself. They made a big change, that made a lot of people angry, told us those changes were required for game future and that they will roll a fix to biggest flaw, asked us to wait a long time for it, and then rolled an update that more or less doesn't really fix the issue at hand. This makes some of those angry people, be even angrier to the point some will leave.

Personally I will wait for PvP update. It will let me confirm how full of shit or not devs are (as in were the 2.0 changes really necessary for future updates). And then quit or not game depending on the update/game state/future.

Originally Posted by soviras

This is an important thing a lot of people are missing. As long as you are active and not just showing up to collect once a day, you will get enough money in a reasonable time. I earn enough to get a girl to 3 stars in two and a half days while going for the event girls... It's pretty much just money from my harem that I'm earning now, and it's enough to get me to full upgrades in less than 3 days.

Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

Just a small side note ;]

Originally Posted by Eversor86

As a side note (cause we all love them lol): The biggest affection issue is its cost, how fast we can acquire gifts was an side issue that became important cause of the extreme cost in the first place. What this update did is band-aided the side issue, leaving main issue mostly untouched. I say mostly cause PvP free gift drops can help a bit, but how it helps is more or less static, thus it gets less and less helpful with rising cost.

So you want to say that the cost is the bigger issue when compared to affection being short in supply? The costs that you can manage to pay off in a matter of days worth of active playing? You do realize that it could take months to get enough gifts, right? Months, as opposed to the days that it would take to gain the money you need for the same upgrade...

The cost isn't a non-issue, but it was most certainly not the biggest issue. If anything, the cost was the side issue... I was gaining money at a rapid pace before this update because it was impossible to spend it fast enough through the market... Affection gain was so slow that it could get to the point where I was able to spend my earnings from the time I waited to upgrade a single girl and upgrade almost two more from the resulting gifts (despite the pachinko being much more expensive at level 100+)... Now I can spend less money to get affection than I would need to for using pachinko, and get it faster than when I still needed to use pachinko too because I need to gather less money.

Originally Posted by Eversor86

Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

I collect money once every 2 hours, and yet it is more than enough to provide me with enough money. I could gain money faster if I still collected it actively, but I don't do that anymore. It isn't too hard to just log in once every now and then for a few seconds and just click through the list of girls.

If you assume that I'm active for 16 hours a day, then people who play for 8 hours a day (which would be logging in 4 times spread over the course of a day), would be able to do it in 5-6 days. If you log in less than 4 times, you would also significantly slow down the amount of girls you get in a given time frame, and while it would take longer than a week to get the money, you will have a lot more time in between obtaining girls as well. With more time in between girls, the time it takes to upgrade one can become larger without any repercussions. Even if you log in once a day, you will get the money faster than you can get a girl to drop with the current drop system.

Without wading into the "Great Affection Debate" of 2017, I just wanted to share some observations of the patch put in yesterday. I have played about 6-7 hours today so far and have already received 306 Affection in game play outside the market. I received 100 from missions (60+40), and 206 from PvP battles (7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+25+25+100). Projecting out for the rest of the day, I anticipate, approx 500 free Affection total. That has a value of over 200k in current affection prices, and even more importantly is well more than half the amount than we were able to acquire from the market on any given day.

7 hours playing and only 306 affection?, for my 3star i need 6000 affection which means i need to play 140 hours for one star(without buying from the market) The value of those affection items is totally irrelevant because the affection items have overinflated prices


If i would buy it all on the market it would cost me 2,5 million just for one 3rd star.
I'm amazed how many people in this thread still defend these absurd prices

Well I defend it because I dont have problem with it (yes I would be happy if I can max 3 stars on one girl every day by spending 100k in the shop so I can see her scenes faster but in the same way I would love to get event girls without spending kobans) ... It can be problem now since we are in event and we get 3k or 6k from bosses that drop event girls ... but after that you will be able to farm 500k from boss fights alone and more from your harem (depending on number of girls ... I have 61 girls and my max is now at 118k since I didnt max all girls) so with collecting every 2 or 3 hours you can get more ... and 1M a day will let you upgrade girls in not that long time compared to what you would need before while waiting for shop refresh (and again ... after 2.0 I got lot of girls at the same time so that is why now I dont have any cash at hand ... in one or two weeks or one month at max I will max stars on all of them and will be able to save money for next girl so I am able to max her in one day thx to new affection update)

And btw those numbers are if I take it easy and dont farm all day long

Originally Posted by Frelas

7 hours playing and only 306 affection?, for my 3star i need 6000 affection which means i need to play 140 hours for one star(without buying from the market) The value of those affection items is totally irrelevant because the affection items have overinflated prices


If i would buy it all on the market it would cost me 2,5 million just for one 3rd star.
I'm amazed how many people in this thread still defend these absurd prices

And what exactly makes the prices absurd? Don't get me wrong, the prices are not ideal right now, but they aren't absurd either. Your income goes up with each girl, making it easier to earn any specific amount of money. With the growing price, the price you pay is no longer a price of money, but a price of "time spent". The price of 2,5 million is no more absurd than it is to upgrade Bunny as your very first girl, because the amount of time you need to spend in order to get the money to get her to three stars is still comparable to what you need to spend to get your latest girl to three stars. The time spent to upgrade a girl does grow, but at a much slower pace, and it goes up slower and slower the more girls you get.

Originally Posted by soviras

So you want to say that the cost is the bigger issue when compared to affection being short in supply? The costs that you can manage to pay off in a matter of days worth of active playing? You do realize that it could take months to get enough gifts, right? Months, as opposed to the days that it would take to gain the money you need for the same upgrade...

What I meant was that upgrade cost in affection points and their cash value plus cash for upgrades themselves is the main issue here. The affection point acquisition gating was created by that high cost, cause it was so high that what you could get per day in market/etc became the next even scarier gate. The fact that people started getting more cash on higher levels thx to selling free items made it worse.

Don't get me wrong. I am not saying affection in market wasn't an issue. But how you paint the picture kinda rubs me the wrong way.

70th girl costs total of 8m3 cash, 2m upgrades and rest in 15k affection points.

You could get the affection points before this update in less than 15 days if you gone for PvP, a bit slower if you didn't do PvP a lot.

With a 70 girl harem you can get around 100k/h from baby-sitting level of active collecting, and best troll gives around 60k/h. Thats 160k/h which means you would need nearly 52h of playing which is 6.5 days if you play 8h a day and less than 3 only if you play more than 16h a day. If you play less hours? Or just collect once per 2h and/or fight event trolls for example? Then you get <70k/h from that harem, and <20k/h from trolls which is <90k/h. And thats 92 hours or 11.5 days with 8h a day. And so on, so on.

You could actually keep the 15 days time wise to get affection points and play so inactively in cash side of things you would actually maybe even require more days.

So its not days to months, its 3 days in perfect active playing on just cash side with around 16h/day or more vs 15 days in just paying attention to level up after you bought up market after normal reset to level-up reset it again instantly on affection buying side.

As a personal note, cause you seem to like to use yourself as a example: I have 67 girls now, I do even trolls only now, and I collect harem on a semi-active state, as in more often than 2h but not stay there all the damn time. Its 2nd day of the update being live and I didn't even manage to go from 2* to 3* on a single girl. And she was 30% done already from my stored gifts. I maybe would get her to 3* if I didn't buy-out books, but still from my perspective maxing out a girl in <3 days is bullshit, especially if you collect once per 2h and do event trolls.

EDIT:

Just so we all get on the same page. I don't say that this update is bad. Neither I say game was fine without it. Nor I even say that its bad with it. Having some small goals of upgrading new girls is fine. Thou it kinda annoys me a bit, cause before 2.0 hit I was maxed on stats, and thus could play less to keep being maxed, and now its back to farmin ;]

Originally Posted by Eversor86

I wont lie. I do want to bring a bit of negativity here. Cause people suger coat devs like you, and it gives me diabetes.

Dude, you can't be serious. You want to bring negativity because some people bring positivity? That sounds so... sick?! O_o

Originally Posted by Eversor86

If a small kinda incoherent dev team (as in from what people told me every one of them is only good in one field, and has no clue about other people fields, they don't have anyone with good management skills so they often wait one for another, etc.) tells you they care first for core players, you can basically read it as they care only about them.

That's a very personal interpretation here. Can we stick to statements and facts instead of twisted interpretation? They said they care for both casual ("core") and more dedicated players. That's enough for me. Or you think they are lying?

Originally Posted by Eversor86

Personally I will wait for PvP update. It will let me confirm how full of shit or not devs are (as in were the 2.0 changes really necessary for future updates). And then quit or not game depending on the update/game state/future.

hmm... as far as i know, the 2.0 changes are not especially necessary for the PvP update but for new features that will come later on. They have some interesting ideas for the harem, among other things...

Originally Posted by Eversor86

Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

You possibly have some limitations i'm not aware of that make you unable to play whenever you want, but in my case, I have 75 girls and make around 1,9 M per day without playing more than 20 minutes (i think i mentionned 1,5M somewhere else, but in meantime, i double checked my numbers). That's quite far from the 16+ hours a day you mention.