Thread: Affection Should Be Reworked

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Main feedback that was given to Kinkoid was that affection was too difficult to obtain, because of the rarity of gifts. Now we have plenty of affection, for the same price as before (417 $ for 1 point of affection).
So, they didn't increase the price of the affection today. They just gave more affection. I don't see the problem here...


Since HH 2.0, players get more money than before, between harem (girls give more money per hour in average) and trolls fights.

The fix came yesterday and i lost 9 million to raise two affection points during that time, and you are seriously asking where the problem is? Jesus christ i dont care anymore if you defend this bullshit. I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks... thats a huge problem for me. If you have the time to collect money 24/7 thats good for you. I dont have that amount the time to solve my income problem (ingame).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks...

Buying common or uncommon would still cost the same, other than the final points where epic/legendary may have a bit of overflow. But you should be able to get a few such drops from PVP and/or quests.
Being able to buy epic and/or legendary affection items means that instead of needing 10 days to have enough affection to max a girl, you need 4 or 5 instead. Not that you need less cash (which may still be an issue, though not sure why). All in all, compared to the 2.0 update, raising affection is slightly easier now, though still much harder than it was before the 2.0 update.

Originally Posted by JMich

Buying common or uncommon would still cost the same, other than the final points where epic/legendary may have a bit of overflow. But you should be able to get a few such drops from PVP and/or quests.
Being able to buy epic and/or legendary affection items means that instead of needing 10 days to have enough affection to max a girl, you need 4 or 5 instead. Not that you need less cash (which may still be an issue, though not sure why). All in all, compared to the 2.0 update, raising affection is slightly easier now, though still much harder than it was before the 2.0 update.

You guys seriously dont get the problem here. The amount of money you need to spend to raise a level and the amount of money you get as a reward is an absolute joke!
As I said beofre, in just one freakin day i lost 9 millions, how much do you think i made in this past day? Something about 400k. In other words, if I dont spend my whole day on this game the affection system is worthless for me. I dont see the fun in farming money for weeks to raise one girl that then gives me literally nothing in comparison.

My main problem is that the amount of money you have to spend is enourmes while the amount of money you get is an absolute joke. Stephanie gives 890 bucks at level 3!!!
Do you know how much money i spend to reach that point? millions...
As I said before, defend this bullshit and play your new money farming simulator, I'm out....

Originally Posted by Eversor86

You just all need to take into consideration one thing, one thing only, a thing that devs care only about in this game, at least based on what they were telling me multiple times on discord.
The only thing they care about is core players.

Wow, man... You're Insaneis, right? I don't know if you said this on purpose to bring negativity here or if you just misunderstood what Kaos spent so long time explaining you, but it's false that they do only care for core players.
A quick search provide various quotes on this matter. For example, on 11th September:
Makuro: "Anyway, it's not relevant to discuss if the game should be balanced for casuals or pros, your goal is to give everyone a good experience, not one or the other.
Kaos: yes, and that's why we need to take time to push the changes".

Maybe the sentence you misunderstood (or purposely twist?) is this one: "I don't want to create a feature that will take a lot of time just to satisfy a few players. I want first to create stuff that will satisfy the most of our players. my time isn't infinite." (emphasis is mine)?
If so, a careful reading of this statement should make it clear that they don't think only about core players. But they naturally think first about them, which any good businessman will tell you is perfectly fair.

Originally Posted by Eversor86

As a side note 2: if you talk a bit with devs, you will get a feeling they are kinda full of themselves, whatever they fuck up, they will tell you it wasn't a fuck up, but a change necessary to accommodate future changes to make game better, etc. Whatever people complain about that they changed, they will repair it in convoluted way, to like make you think they are fixing the problem while you could argue they don't (like this whole affection thing).

Lol, seriously? I was reading all your conversations with Kaos on Discord when they happened, and i was more under the impression that you were the one kinda full of himself. I mean: you, a programer (so, not a game designer, are you?), a single player, you know better than the game design team that get the entirety of the players' data (and know their behaviours) and has knowledge of the plans for future (short and long term) features?
If yes, I tip my hat to you. But more likely, you're full of yourself
Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying the dev team didn't make any mistake, but the fact that you call them "full of themselves" - despite they spent more than 1 hour discussing with you, answering your questions and explaining their point of view - feels inapproriate.

Originally Posted by Eversor86

As a side note 3: I think this game requires the most work or real money spent on kobans to unlock girls/their affection scenes, and this cost now goes up with each new girl [...].

For your information, they said they're gonna work on that.

The fix came yesterday and i lost 9 million to raise two affection points during that time, and you are seriously asking where the problem is? Jesus christ i dont care anymore if you defend this bullshit. I can only buy legendary items now, wich means i need to spend atleast 10 millions to max out a girl that then gives me like 1000 bucks... thats a huge problem for me. If you have the time to collect money 24/7 thats good for you. I dont have that amount the time to solve my income problem (ingame).

Well, the point is that you don't have to spend 9 millions everyday. You spend what you earn. I think with this new system, depending on how many girls you have and how often you collect money (don't forget that the main source of income now are fighting the boss, not the harem), an average player should spend between 2 and 7 days to raise a girl from 0* to 3*, which seem perfectly fine by me.
If you happen to have more detailled calculation than my rough estimation, I'd appreciate you share it
Also, keep in mind that they said they proceed by iterative adjustments. Further fine tuning will probably come in a not so far future after they evaluate the in-game effects of yesterday patch.
Oh, and for the record, I don't spend more than 20 minutes per day on the game. Yet I make more than 1.5M per day (I have 75 girls and i'm in world 9. More than 1M of my incomes come from fighting Finalmecia). Maybe you're in a different situation, but 20 minutes per day seems hardly unachievable, imho.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

The amount of money you need to spend to raise a level and the amount of money you get as a reward is an absolute joke!

Yes, we do get that it is an issue (for some, I'm still at over 40 mill for some reason). But that didn't change with Monday's update. On the other hand, Monday's update did make it faster to get the items you need to raise the affection. You still need to pay the same amount of money to raise the affection, but you can do it faster. So Monday's update fixed one problem while leaving other issues untouched.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

you know better than the game design team that get the entirety of the players' data (and know their behaviours)

They are kinda bad at interpreting some of the data from what I can tell from their answers to some questions. One of their claims was that players mainly cared about their girls, but there isn't much else to do in the game other than battles and rereading story so that creates a massive bias for the player activity (which they don't seem to realize).

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Well, the point is that you don't have to spend 9 millions everyday. You spend what you earn. I think with this new system, depending on how many girls you have and how often you collect money (don't forget that the main source of income now are fighting the boss, not the harem), an average player should spend between 2 and 7 days to raise a girl from 0* to 3*, which seem perfectly fine by me.

This is an important thing a lot of people are missing. As long as you are active and not just showing up to collect once a day, you will get enough money in a reasonable time. I earn enough to get a girl to 3 stars in two and a half days while going for the event girls... It's pretty much just money from my harem that I'm earning now, and it's enough to get me to full upgrades in less than 3 days.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Wow, man... You're Insaneis, right? I don't know if you said this on purpose to bring negativity here or if you just misunderstood what Kaos spent so long time explaining you, but it's false that they do only care for core players.

I wont lie. I do want to bring a bit of negativity here. Cause people suger coat devs like you, and it gives me diabetes. If a small kinda incoherent dev team (as in from what people told me every one of them is only good in one field, and has no clue about other people fields, they don't have anyone with good management skills so they often wait one for another, etc.) tells you they care first for core players, you can basically read it as they care only about them.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Maybe the sentence you misunderstood (or purposely twist?) is this one: "I don't want to create a feature that will take a lot of time just to satisfy a few players. I want first to create stuff that will satisfy the most of our players. my time isn't infinite." (emphasis is mine)?
If so, a careful reading of this statement should make it clear that they don't think only about core players. But they naturally think first about them, which any good businessman will tell you is perfectly fair.

Why do you take things out of context? The feature was a challenge troll, that would scale up with player levels, easy to implement (so dev lies that its time consuming), we even had a big (later deleted) conversation with ideas how to do it exactly. Something that would let people who want a challenge not one-shot kill enemies in PvP/story-trolls, something to spent battle energy on when you have all girls dropped and all of them upgraded.

Heck the challenge-troll idea came to life instantly after the same dev you quoted told me they will never fix difficulty in story.

Originally Posted by Tristelune

Don't misunderstand me: I'm not saying the dev team didn't make any mistake, but the fact that you call them "full of themselves" - despite they spent more than 1 hour discussing with you, answering your questions and explaining their point of view - feels inapproriate.

But in that more than 1 hour of discussion, I got the feeling of them (him) being full of themselves (himself). My feeling after talking with Kaos is that he basically doesn't like people with a different opinions, and instead of maybe admitting they could do things better, try to suger-coat what they did as being a basement for future changes, to use his own words. I mean I am a bit full of myself too, which lets me spot another one similar to me easier ;P.

As a side note (cause we all love them lol): The biggest affection issue is its cost, how fast we can acquire gifts was an side issue that became important cause of the extreme cost in the first place. What this update did is band-aided the side issue, leaving main issue mostly untouched. I say mostly cause PvP free gift drops can help a bit, but how it helps is more or less static, thus it gets less and less helpful with rising cost.

I don't know any other game where the more characters you have, the harder it is to upgrade them. The idea itself seems stupid. But then we don't really use more than 3 characters in HH. So one could argue that the "default" ideas about character collecting games shouldn't apply to HH.

In conclusion: I am full of myself to a certain degree. But so are the devs or at least Koas himself. They made a big change, that made a lot of people angry, told us those changes were required for game future and that they will roll a fix to biggest flaw, asked us to wait a long time for it, and then rolled an update that more or less doesn't really fix the issue at hand. This makes some of those angry people, be even angrier to the point some will leave.

Personally I will wait for PvP update. It will let me confirm how full of shit or not devs are (as in were the 2.0 changes really necessary for future updates). And then quit or not game depending on the update/game state/future.

Originally Posted by soviras

This is an important thing a lot of people are missing. As long as you are active and not just showing up to collect once a day, you will get enough money in a reasonable time. I earn enough to get a girl to 3 stars in two and a half days while going for the event girls... It's pretty much just money from my harem that I'm earning now, and it's enough to get me to full upgrades in less than 3 days.

Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

Just a small side note ;]

Originally Posted by Eversor86

As a side note (cause we all love them lol): The biggest affection issue is its cost, how fast we can acquire gifts was an side issue that became important cause of the extreme cost in the first place. What this update did is band-aided the side issue, leaving main issue mostly untouched. I say mostly cause PvP free gift drops can help a bit, but how it helps is more or less static, thus it gets less and less helpful with rising cost.

So you want to say that the cost is the bigger issue when compared to affection being short in supply? The costs that you can manage to pay off in a matter of days worth of active playing? You do realize that it could take months to get enough gifts, right? Months, as opposed to the days that it would take to gain the money you need for the same upgrade...

The cost isn't a non-issue, but it was most certainly not the biggest issue. If anything, the cost was the side issue... I was gaining money at a rapid pace before this update because it was impossible to spend it fast enough through the market... Affection gain was so slow that it could get to the point where I was able to spend my earnings from the time I waited to upgrade a single girl and upgrade almost two more from the resulting gifts (despite the pachinko being much more expensive at level 100+)... Now I can spend less money to get affection than I would need to for using pachinko, and get it faster than when I still needed to use pachinko too because I need to gather less money.

Originally Posted by Eversor86

Around 70th girl requires around 15k affection points. Which is 6.2 millions cash. Plus nearly 2 millions for upgrades themselves. You can get probably at most 120k cash/h if you work on your harem collecting. You can't even do 15k cash/h from event trolls. You would need to play like 16+ hours a day to be able to level one girl to 3* in less than 3 days. I wont say its impossible, but for most people thou that time will be far, far longer.

I collect money once every 2 hours, and yet it is more than enough to provide me with enough money. I could gain money faster if I still collected it actively, but I don't do that anymore. It isn't too hard to just log in once every now and then for a few seconds and just click through the list of girls.

If you assume that I'm active for 16 hours a day, then people who play for 8 hours a day (which would be logging in 4 times spread over the course of a day), would be able to do it in 5-6 days. If you log in less than 4 times, you would also significantly slow down the amount of girls you get in a given time frame, and while it would take longer than a week to get the money, you will have a lot more time in between obtaining girls as well. With more time in between girls, the time it takes to upgrade one can become larger without any repercussions. Even if you log in once a day, you will get the money faster than you can get a girl to drop with the current drop system.

Without wading into the "Great Affection Debate" of 2017, I just wanted to share some observations of the patch put in yesterday. I have played about 6-7 hours today so far and have already received 306 Affection in game play outside the market. I received 100 from missions (60+40), and 206 from PvP battles (7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+25+25+100). Projecting out for the rest of the day, I anticipate, approx 500 free Affection total. That has a value of over 200k in current affection prices, and even more importantly is well more than half the amount than we were able to acquire from the market on any given day.

7 hours playing and only 306 affection?, for my 3star i need 6000 affection which means i need to play 140 hours for one star(without buying from the market) The value of those affection items is totally irrelevant because the affection items have overinflated prices


If i would buy it all on the market it would cost me 2,5 million just for one 3rd star.
I'm amazed how many people in this thread still defend these absurd prices