Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

I highly advice against the HP weapons, except for maybe Dartagnan in some situations. The 30% Elemental attack is just too damn good to pass up on.

What about for Joan, Her elemental attack weapon does boosts damage by a ton, increases overall healing and DA buff duration throughout the fight by decreasing cooldown. But her HP weapon brings an extra 20% damage cut totalling 60% which could also be argued that keeping team alive lets you clear with more ease or get more damage in for raids. In this case, how would you come to a conclusion on which is better? Or do I stick with HP weapon for Herc+D'art, and Elemental Damage>All rule here.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Light Resist is damage cut just like Joan

But this only works when fighting against Light teams right?
So in the case I am fighting non-Light teams, I should be spending Pluto Blocks for the damage cut? I was under the impression it would've been more optimal to use one block for Dark Atk UP and the second block for 100% burst damage.

Originally Posted by Slashley

And on a side note, you can't FLB Herc's Axe. The correct terminology is MLB.

I admit not knowing everything about the game including terminology, so thank you for correcting me.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I think you're vastly overrating Def Up. 40% Def Up is nowhere near as good as damage cut is.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Re: Joan vs Andromeda
Enemy design to this point has usually heavily loaded their damage output into overdrives and triggers. If you have to pick between one or the other, you're usually better served with the damage cut that can change a 'you lose/crippling' level attack into 'survivable/manageable' than a def buff that would change 'survivable/manageable' auto attacks/skills into 'manageable/irrelevant'.

I admit I tend to get caught up in the trap with Andromeda but mainly because my Fire team's only source of healing is Amaterasu since I'm running Mordred, whereas my Water team has both Nike(Unleashed) and Andromeda = 2 healers. This allowed me to live longer in raids giving me the impression Andromeda really isn't that bad with the def buff when in reality she really is, given that she has one less available skill(res) compared to other souls. I mean, she's a noob trap and I pretty much still am a noob, so can't help but jump in. But I am working on getting Joan so hopefully I'll be able to climb out of the pitfall soon.

I feel like the situation that would call for Andromeda's HP weapon would basically require....
1. You're looking to use your soul for defensive purposes (this is the point where your choice of soul comes down to Joan or Andromeda)
2. You have enough sources of resists/damage cuts from hime such that healing is now a higher need than damage cut (now this is where you choose the Andromeda line over the Joan line)
3. You don't need Maiden's Prayer or Chaos Magic (thus leaving Andromeda as the default)
4. Because in general we prefer +element over +HP for the soul weapon, the skill buff it grants must be much better for the HP to be worth picking, right? So this means that we would need the improvement to the def buff from the HP weapon to be better enough over the addition of regen to the heal from the element weapon to compensate for +element's advantage over +HP. We'll each have our own different valuations here, but to give mine as an example: If I have at least two lv 20 ascension (S) skills in my grid (+48%; close enough to 'plus a half'), I'd pick the +element weapon here. Otherwise I'd go with the def buff improvement from the HP weapon.

Now a +40% def buff isn't bad, per se. For a character starting at 100% defense, getting raised to 140% defense means incoming damage goes down by ~28.5%, when everything else remains the same. Stacking isn't so great though; since it's damage / [1 * (sum of def buffs)]. Which means that the more def one already has, the less impact adding even more does, and that def alone takes extreme amounts to reduce damage to small amounts (which is why Athena's def buff needs to multiply her def by 10).

But again, as I said in the previous post, damage distribution is usually not even. When you really want to mitigate damage, go with the damage cut. They reduce damage more and stack much better.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

-- But her HP weapon brings an extra 20% damage cut totalling 60% which could also be argued that keeping team alive lets you clear with more ease or get more damage in for raids. In this case, how would you come to a conclusion on which is better?

This depends too much on content to say anything definitive. We have to remember that 60% damage cut is absolutely massive, especially if you have ANY other source of damage cuts (Kaisers, other Hime).

There have been people drumming on this forum that Joan HP weapon is going to be a thing soon enough. With Wind and Thunder Rags approaching, maybe so.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

But this only works when fighting against Light teams right?
So in the case I am fighting non-Light teams, I should be spending Pluto Blocks for the damage cut? I was under the impression it would've been more optimal to use one block for Dark Atk UP and the second block for 100% burst damage.

Yes, if you can avoid it, don't bother with spending a Block on the damage cut against non-Light. However, you often don't really get that choice.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I admit not knowing everything about the game including terminology, so thank you for correcting me.

Just for the record, MLB = Max Limit Break (also known as Limit Break Max/Break Max Limit/Max Break Limit/Limit Max Break/Break Limit Max, it all works) is level 125 in SSR weapons, 85 in SR weapons, 100 in SSR Eidolons. Meanwhile, FLB is Final Limit Break, which is only available to a specific few SSR weapons, increasing level cap to 150.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I admit I tend to get caught up in the trap with Andromeda but mainly because my Fire team's only source of healing is Amaterasu since I'm running Mordred, whereas my Water team has both Nike(Unleashed) and Andromeda = 2 healers. This allowed me to live longer in raids giving me the impression Andromeda really isn't that bad with the def buff when in reality she really is, given that she has one less available skill(res) compared to other souls. I mean, she's a noob trap and I pretty much still am a noob, so can't help but jump in. But I am working on getting Joan so hopefully I'll be able to climb out of the pitfall soon.

Do you know the definition of a good trap? When you know it's a trap, but you have to fall for it anyway.

Heals are extremely good when you're new and have little HP, but as you get stronger and stronger, you not only finish fights faster (which means less damage taken) but also get more HP to act as a buffer. This often means that by the time you start getting tier3 Souls, you're already close to the phase where you don't really need the heals anymore. Of course, depends on content. 80+ rounds of Water Rag is going to wear anyone down without heals.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

What if we include soul weapons into the picture? I'll use my dark team which although is not my "main" team but is something I am starting to work on as an example.

Weapons:
3 Assault ++ SSR at sklvl4
1 Pride SSR at sklvl1
6 Assault SSR at sklvl5 (will work on getting them to 8 as you've suggested)

Himes:
-Pluto: Atk Up (A frame 20) Dark Atk(a frame 30%) Light Rst(20%) Dmg Taken Reduced(30%)
-Satan: Def Down(a frame 15)
-Hypnos: Def Down(drowsiness 20%) Light Rst(20%)
-Paimon: Atk Down(C frame 15%) Atk Up (A frame 15%)

Soul skill: Sniper Shot Atk/Def Down (B frame 20%)

Total buff/debuffs
-Atk Up: A frame 20%
-Atk Down : B frame 20%, C frame 15% = 35%
-Def Down: A frame 15%, B frame 20%, Drowsiness 20% = 55%
-Light RST: 20%
-Pluto using blocks: Dark Atk up 30% and/or Dmg Taken Reduced: 30%

Which Soul Weapon should I focus on?
-Andromeda staff: 11~30% elemental attack, Def up : A frame 20% and D frame 20% which I lack since Light RST won't against non-Light enemies. I also get a heal which is the bait for her trap(res).
-Joan of Arc: 11~30% elemental attack/HP since both weapons are probably fine, but Joan is mainly for Atk Down: A frame 20% so I hit at the 50% cap when running Sniper Shot.

I know the best situation endgame-wise would be to get Hercules(still need to unlock Achilles first) with FLB Axe for 25% def down, and awaken Satan for Def Down: A frame 15% and an extra Dark Rst Down: 10% hitting exactly 50%. But this presents a few problems for me.
1) I would need to replace Hypnos with something else which I still haven't figure out which, best bet atm would be Diana for heal, and can alternate with Pluto and Paimon for permanent Atk Up. (Sadly all A frame)
2) Unless I can get Hades to cover Atk Down: A frame 20% which I will not count on, gacha rng and stuff, I am stuck with Sniper Shot which will put me at 50% Def Down and 70% Atk Down(which has 20% wasted for being over the cap). So in a sense this is not an option.
2*) If they hand out a miracle ticket anytime soon, I will likely be using it to perfect my main teams if there are available options. So it is also unlikely for me to grab Hades even if she is on available.
3) I am also required to get Hercule's axe FLB'd before it hits the maximum Def Down potential, whereas I could at least still have -50%/50% with Joan whom I could technically sit on LB0, and the weapon is sort of optional as well. But of course the boost in either ATK or HP would still be very welcomed. This allows me to focus my AP/BP on raids of my main element(fire>water>rest) for Hercules, effectively saving me more "total time".

I know that most people would say Joan>Andro almost all the time, except in this case my dark team has 0 Def Up outside of Light enemies. Joan has an awesome damage taken reduced, but to my knowledge, that is something which should be saved for overdrive nukes. 60% if I get the spear. Andro on the other hand, provides 40% Def Up with the staff and lasts for 3 turns meaning boss auto attacks and skills on the following 2 turns are reduced too, which is why I bothered to consider about the trap.


No matter which soul weapon I end up getting, will I rush it to sklvl20 or do I level it equally with my other assault SSRs? Personally I find it makes more sense to rush soul weapon sklvl to 20 then moving on to assault SSRs, just because 30% elemental attack or HP would probably benefit my team a lot more.

So I'm also a Dark main also and I think I can comment on how to structure your team and raise weapons for potentially endgame.

For a Dark team, Hercules will probably be your end Soul. You don't have the speed for Shingen and you can always just use Provisional Forest in the Ex slot for Herc. You'll want the Axe Neme Askal as your soul weapon and you'll be aiming for a Phantom Axe if they ever drop for you. The Dark Axe of Envy (from UE) is a Pride/Defender Axe. Askal, Phantom Axe and as many Dark Axe's as possible is your optimal weapon load out. If you don't have enough Dark Axes, the Pitch Dark Axe from the Orichalcon shop can be used to hit 5 Axes, but it's subpar. After that, I'd use the UE hammers (Assault/Exceed) until you get really good Hime weapons to replace them with. Dark has an awesome grid from just union events; most other elements can't do this. I would rush these weapons to FLB as fast a possible then go work on your other element's grids.

I would go directly from Mordred to D'Art to Hercules and skip Joan and Andromeda. You'll have to find healing somewhere else, but it's not massively useful long term. You don't need Joan with Pluto. Learn to use her; she does both damage cut and atk up. While her damage cut isn't as powerful as Joan's it almost always enough; especially when you start upgrading your weapon grid with assault/defender weapons (did you FLB those UE axes yet...). Awaken Satan and you'll hit max def debuff with just her and Herc's Axe. That allows you to use Provisional Forest in the Ex and still be viable. Paimon and Hypnos are fillers till you get better Himes (if ever), but are viable. Attack down isn't as crucial as Defense down. If you have it great, if you don't, don't sweat it.


If you do purchase a miracle ticket we can talk about that when it's available. Great choices are Chernobog, Hades, Osiris, and Samael depending on who fills the biggest hole and/or what you like.

Dejnov.

P.S. I absolutely agree with Slashley- I get the element weapon nearly every time. The defender weapon needs a solid additional reason to be a viable choice (i.e. phantom grid need etc.)

Originally Posted by Slashley

Heals are extremely good when you're new and have little HP, but as you get stronger and stronger, you not only finish fights faster (which means less damage taken) but also get more HP to act as a buffer. This often means that by the time you start getting tier3 Souls, you're already close to the phase where you don't really need the heals anymore. Of course, depends on content. 80+ rounds of Water Rag is going to wear anyone down without heals.

Maybe because I'm lacking assault/defenders for most of my grid so even at the point where I have 3 legendary souls I still feel like I lack heals. Even though my non-main elemental teams are all at least 35k power atm they usually only have around 5k-6k hp so it feels like even though the boss is just trying to tickle me I feel like I'm getting run over by a truck. Could also be because I'm using elemental attack eidolons instead of the 40char/20hp ones.

So it seems like Andro weapons are probably not worth it for mid-end game. And since in order to unlock Hercules I would need 400 soulpoints more(still need achilles) than unlocking Joan, it might be better for me to get Joan so I can have an easier time with the next few events. This should allow me some time to get a couple Assault/Defender SSRs so that I have the HP to replace the damage cut when I swap to Hercules. At least that's what I'm thinking would be better overall for my situation.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

So I'm also a Dark main also and I think I can comment on how to structure your team and raise weapons for potentially endgame.

For a Dark team, Hercules will probably be your end Soul. You don't have the speed for Shingen and you can always just use Provisional Forest in the Ex slot for Herc. You'll want the Axe Neme Askal as your soul weapon and you'll be aiming for a Phantom Axe if they ever drop for you. The Dark Axe of Envy (from UE) is a Pride/Defender Axe. Askal, Phantom Axe and as many Dark Axe's as possible is your optimal weapon load out. If you don't have enough Dark Axes, the Pitch Dark Axe from the Orichalcon shop can be used to hit 5 Axes, but it's subpar. After that, I'd use the UE hammers (Assault/Exceed) until you get really good Hime weapons to replace them with. Dark has an awesome grid from just union events; most other elements can't do this. I would rush these weapons to FLB as fast a possible then go work on your other element's grids.

I would go directly from Mordred to D'Art to Hercules and skip Joan and Andromeda. You'll have to find healing somewhere else, but it's not massively useful long term. You don't need Joan with Pluto. Learn to use her; she does both damage cut and atk up. While her damage cut isn't as powerful as Joan's it almost always enough; especially when you start upgrading your weapon grid with assault/defender weapons (did you FLB those UE axes yet...). Awaken Satan and you'll hit max def debuff with just her and Herc's Axe. That allows you to use Provisional Forest in the Ex and still be viable. Paimon and Hypnos are fillers till you get better Himes (if ever), but are viable. Attack down isn't as crucial as Defense down. If you have it great, if you don't, don't sweat it.


If you do purchase a miracle ticket we can talk about that when it's available. Great choices are Chernobog, Hades, Osiris, and Samael depending on who fills the biggest hole and/or what you like.

Dejnov.

P.S. I absolutely agree with Slashley- I get the element weapon nearly every time. The defender weapon needs a solid additional reason to be a viable choice (i.e. phantom grid need etc.)

I already have D'Art, Mordred, and Andromeda. Currently saving SP for Joan but maybe I should take up your advise and go straight Hercules since I could just use Pluto for the damage cut.

Dark isn't my main, I'm more of a Fire and Water main since I have 4 SSRs for both of those team.
Fire still needs some work around KH, whereas my water team lacks assault weapons.

Reason I'm working on Dark right now is because
1) I just pulled Satan and Pluto
2) Light event next
3) My non-main element where I have the himes to build a team with -50/50 and decent attack buffs(pluto covers 50%).

My only SSR dark weapons are, Jealous Hammer Rebel Punisher, Ulster Rifle, Demonic Sword lucifer, Dark Axe of Envy(MLB). I do have Dispatel Toys but it's not upgraded/equipped.
Sadly, aside from the Dark Axe of Envy, I do not have any other axes. Hopefully I'll be getting some in the future.

I have not FLB anything yet because I was thinking it might be better to save them until I get a team AND grid that can benefit more from it. I mean yes, my Fire team is my best team in terms of power, KH, and grid. But who knows what gacha will do to me.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

So it seems like Andro weapons are probably not worth it for mid-end game.

Actually there's a lot of people that run Andro for end-game rags since they usually AAB and andro makes that easier. Of course, they still have maxed grids and teams to cover for it.
So yea, you can't really say she's not used end-game since heals are usually helpful in rags when ppl are aab'ing. But ye, for most solo content, she's generally never needed.

Originally Posted by VeryVoodoo

Actually there's a lot of people that run Andro for end-game rags since they usually AAB and andro makes that easier. Of course, they still have maxed grids and teams to cover for it.
So yea, you can't really say she's not used end-game since heals are usually helpful in rags when ppl are aab'ing. But ye, for most solo content, she's generally never needed.

Since I don't have maxed grids and teams, I'd probably need to manual and use other souls to do better. And if I'm gonna leech instead of doing an extra million damage or two before wiping, I wouldn't need her or her soul weapon anyways. So I guess until I actually get that far I probably don't need her soul weapon either way, thus making her priority even lower now?

If you're not doing end-game rags, then no you don't have to worry about her. As I said, for most solo content, she's generally never needed.

As for rags, your extra million damage or two really means nothing in the grand scheme of things, when the rags have well over a 100 million hp. If you actually wanted to help in those without looking to leech, then things like andro heals and joan def cuts are party-wide and thus help others more than an extra 1-2m dmg in that context. Especially if you're paying attention and time those around triggers and such. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Guys, i'm not sure. I saw somewhere that you should keep your half refill pots for events and so, but right now, I have a huge amount of them (>200), and I could use them today for rank exp (i'm only rank 42, dat stamina pool starts to hurt). Is it a big mistake to do so, like shooting myself in the foot?