Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

**Mraktar** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

+1s from gemcha only come from R stuff, so the question then directs to if the number of R weapons/eidolons you can pull is reduced... but I don't have the drop rates.

I'm kinda questioning whether I can sustain some patience and pull the fuck out of 1 pull gemcha in the future...

No, exp fodder weapons/eydos can be +1 in new gacha too.

**Cobblemaniac** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by Slashley

Compress

Reality is... likely rarity in our english version, if the patterns I've seen from reading the gacha pages are correct.

Now, I don't know if the light Nike vs thunder Aphro argument is still ongoing. But do allow me to simply say this:

Light Nike advocates are constantly coming up with evidence to support light Nike. Thunder Aphro advocates are constantly coming up with evidence to support thunder Aphro. Both sides need to chill, and actually weigh things neutrally without feeding their own confirmation bias too much. I take no sides, but some of you guys are getting too riled up about this.

Originally Posted by Mraktar

No, exp fodder weapons/eydos can be +1 in new gacha too.

Well technically they're R stuff too

I guess I forgot to include the SR fodder.

Edit: Oh, and btw... editing your posts instead of double posting helps clean up the forum threads a bit more. Just a little extra PSA.

**Tanaka5** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by Slashley

Maths don't lie, mates. Don't like it? Prove it wrong.

Have you really lost it to the point where you can't distinguish between Maths and Fantasy?
What you've been talking is like 'I will assume 1=2 and therefore 1 + 3 =5'.

I love Maths but the difference is, the rest of us are being practical. We all do our maths and theorycraft, then we see if that theory is actually applicable without which it is pointless as Blubbergott already stated.

In my case, if I think something is good but less used, I try to ask people who have used it more and actually know more about it than me. That's called curiosity which is how you become more knowledgeable.

You on the other hand get hyped by your discovery and assume everyone else is wrong because in your fantasy world, it is actually godlike. That is ignorance. They're at opposite ends of the spectrum.

Mind you it isn't just nutaku players criticizing you but DMM players too. I have the fortune of asking multiple DMM players about this topic and they all had the same thing to say.
Bear already said that Light Nike is good but her use is niche. And she is actually no where close to what your fantasy maths suggest i.e beating 100% Eidos. She isn't also better than many of the current Light meta himes because it's not just damage or assault buff they bring. Each has it's own distinct use which isn't easily replaceable just because some other hime looks so good on paper. Bear is a Light main who has done well in rankings too and made a Light guide here which also covered Light Nike but even he isn't mathematically inclined according to you right?

Another DMM light main had this to say "She is a permanent bench warmer". Mind you these are people who don't have access to prior information like us and by default the only way they have concrete information is by doing number crunching. So everyone of them has already done their maths way before you could think of it.

You are talking about people who love experimenting with their teams and himes and doing stuff like R runs on AQ4, SR runs on GO or maybe even R runs with a few elements. They test it in theory and then test it in practice unlike you who only does it in fantasy (For a theory to be practical, the base assumptions have to be practical first which aren't and hence, fantasy).

Which is why your statement of "people not being mathematically inclined" is foolish to the extreme. You can continue living in your bubble but that will harm you (and anyone who falls for that advice) when all the future content DMM players base their teams on rolls out, if you continue being arrogant and ignorant rather than curious.

I never had a personal problem with you but now I sort of. You always love making assumptions and baseless ones at that.
Either DMM players are space whales or BaarU isn't good because too much micromanagement or Light Nike > 100% eidos and most recently, people not being mathematically not inclined except you and Sanahtlig. Because I observed if he corrects you or when you are making an argument, it is always "According to Sanahtlig's guide........" but when someone more knowledgeable from DMM comes around and corrects you, they are a space whale or not mathematically inclined when they have it tested both mathematically and practically.

Please stop with making assumptions about people just because it doesn't fit your mentality. No one will every give you advice or bother debating with you if that's what you do because it becomes plain annoying.

**HugMeTender** · 06-01-2018

Man, I thought 48 hours was enough time away to escape this argument .__.

**Ikki** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by HugMeTender

Man, I thought 48 hours was enough time away to escape this argument .__.

missinfo shall be purged.

**BlazeAlter** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by HugMeTender

Man, I thought 48 hours was enough time away to escape this argument .__.

this is probably gonna continue until one side that one guy stops replying or something

**Ikki** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by BlazeRai

this is probably gonna continue until one side stops replying or something

You mean 1 guy.

**BlazeAlter** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by Ikki

You mean 1 guy.

oh right, sorry

I corrected it

**Slashley** · 06-01-2018

Originally Posted by blubbergott

-- Furthermore who cares about the exact cut point? --

A newer player would. As such, it is a shame that topic was never returned to.

Originally Posted by blubbergott

Yes, maths don't lie, but your base assumptions are entirely wrong. You're assuming that the KH that would replace Nike contributes nothing at all to the team besides plain autohitting.

Which I did directly mention, and also said to challenge that mathematically. Whileas this:

Originally Posted by blubbergott

From my point of view, a current dmm light team will always consist of: Michael, Metatron and most likely SSArty. That means Nike would be competing for the 4th slot against Take (way more damage than Nike would be doing outside of her assault buff + ~1m added to each burst), Tsuku (5% more def down, Nuke and blind) and maybe Sol if you really need heal/cleanse/dispel. And that's the thing, it's near impossible to just compare the damage/utility any of these adds to the assault Nike adds. It's definitely completely wrong to completely ignore it the way you did.

Doesn't even try to. It's just waving a white flag and saying that "Hey, this team of mine is probably correct, but I cannot base it around any sort of math." Which is the exact opposite of what I was hoping for.

Yes, it is difficult, but it is possible to associate a rough numerical value to each of them.

Originally Posted by Ikki

If dmm releases a hime that can deal 20M damage after 20 turns, on paper? shes amazing holy shit 20M dmg top tier stuff, practical use? garbage,--

Why call it garbage, when it has potential? It will, of course, depend on content. But, against content where 20m damage from one Hime allows you to skip a Rage phase which is the only dangerous part of the fight, then it is amazing. Yet, you don't even look for the possibilities - you just decide that it's bad, and that's that.

Note that I cannot say if 20m one-turn damage from one Hime is good or bad on current DMM standards though (probably good since 0-Exceed full burst cap is around 8,6m), since their numerical values are highly, highly different from ours. Unlike modifiers, which then apply in the same proportion to whatever base numbers they have.

Originally Posted by Ikki

This is the same damn thing that happened when you said that SSR baal wasnt amazing (even tho shes in every single top tier thunder team in dmm), --

Speaking of which, to this day, nobody has brought fourth a single reason why she would be good. Every time, it's just "I dunno lol, DMM players use her, she must be really good!"
Which isn't a reason. At all.

The only thing that I can think of is that if Elem Res- debuff really does help debuffs land, then it's really good news for Thor. Like in Sloth rankings screenshot that I saw, all the teams had Thor and SSR Baal. Is that really the solo reason why people think she's good? "Hey, I saw this Hime on the rankings boards, she must be great!"
... yes... she has a niche of being Thor's buff-bitch. That's... great? I wish people would make actual arguments for SSR Baal. Such as, replacing Mammon due to her downsides in the far future. There, I got you started, why don't you finish that line of thought?

Originally Posted by Mirage

Okay if we ignore the fact that her buff takes 11 turns to kick in, that's 14% damage increase over on-element Hime. Nothing seems wrong, except the fact that it assumes the Hime replaced by Light Nike will just auto-attack without any skill or passive.

Umm, if you're taking that perspective, then you're running with the wrong number. An off-element Nike will give 43% to the four other Hime, so 172% is what you'll lose from taking Nike out, and you'll gain directly 100% just from auto-attacks of the new on-element Hime. So, your new Hime will need to be capable of doing 72% of damage from skills. This isn't exactly accurate since it assumes that four members of the team will do nothing but auto-attack, while the new member gets to use skills. But hey? We can roll with it.

Originally Posted by Mirage

Let's take example, with Dark team, since Dark is probably the weakest in damage, and slowest burst ATM: A ideal team will probably be: Hero+Satan/AmonU/Thanatos/Samael+Pluto+1 strong attacker (Let's take Chernobog in this case)+Wild card.

If that wild card is L.Nike: 14% increase.
If it's anything else, which ideally will be a second attacker, we have: Berith (Counter, a faster and stronger self stackable atk buff, berserk), Susanoo(again faster, stronger stack, strong nuke), Kali (Pride-based atk and DATA buff), Agalia (Strong crit buff). All of these easily provide more than a mere 14%, u dont need to be a math genius to see this, people have prove this by actually using them.

So, bring forth the actual numbers. And, don't forget to bring forth the reasons why you have the other Hime in there as well. That should be easy, but the premise is also important. Honestly? I'd be amazed if Berith already wouldn't be able to do it, since she's at 160% auto-attacks just from her second skill alone.

Originally Posted by Mirage

--
- Light Nike will bring either roughly 30% damage boost, or double FB at turn every 10 turns, coz having both is just unrealistic in endgame scenario.
- 30% damage is something easily achievable with any Meta-attacker coz they can easily do 2 to 3 times damage of a standard defender, debuffer,...
If we take the Double FB approach, so it is DFB every 11 turns, or 1 FB every 4-5 turns+Elemental dmg buff, dmg cut+Nuke+DA with AW Mike. It's clearly as day which one is generally better.

Curious. Would you mind giving basis on where the 30% comes from? Since Light Nike gives 43% to each Hime. And since this is Light, also herself. So a Light Nike team is dealing 7.15 damage each turn when compared to 5 damage without her - that means that a Meta-attacker needs to deal 2.15 by herself. Thus, would you mind expanding upon these?