Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

You make it sound like human conflict is inherently a bad thing.

Aside from that, there isn't much to reply to. As far as I can tell, you're basically saying that a 5/7 uptime is just as good as 2/8 uptime. And how raid Joan + your Pluto will make you basically immune for a turn, which is fair enough, but you can also just wait for a second Joan. Or how you're trying to say that 50% Berserk is weaker than 20% Assault +30% Elemental.
... I'll not even comment on those.


Now then, off to test Pluto's charges. I'll edit this post later, unless there are other posts below this.

After a complete pain in the ass damage calculation (why didn't I use Pluto's buff on the previous turn when showing off damage, and RNG from mobs triggering three Pride Axes... thank fucking god I had the last moment idea of "what if they ALL hit Pluto this very turn?" and debuffed Combo-), I've concluded that Pluto's stacks are indeed part NOT part of the 500% burst damage up cap. And unlike what I speculate in the video, they are indeed 100% each. My old damage Calc claims 1.28m pre-cap with that calculation, and that's easily damage range of the 1.23m which happened. And speaking of speculations, my 800-900k speculation was off as the 500% cap would've lead to ~754k damage.


That certainly does make Pluto better by quite a lot, since stacking up stacks beyond 3 won't be entirely wasted.

Alright since Gluda and cobble made their point about the whole berserk thing im only gonna say this. My original intent was never to say which one is better, i only had issue with you doing the 20% + 30% = 50% kinda math disregarding the different brackets for all 3 things. My only opinion of why it was better is that you can only normal attack with a berserk buff, while you can burst - use spells with pluto's buff and get a huge amount of spike damage

Now for the uptime issue. Yes i put michael there but my intent was to highlight the "Downtime" factor, however i worded that part like shit so that's my fault no questions asked. The "downtime" factor of pluto is a 50% Cut on element on a 6 turn Down time, compare that to most prominent cuts they are usually either on a 5 -4 turn down time and being a bit inferior to Joan's (usually by a 10-20% margin). Yes her CDs are long but it isn't as much of an issue as you made it to be

As for Joan, of course i expect you to know team work and coordination in those high rags, for this case since we are talking 50% damage cut a Light High rag. You can have that Joan use the HP weapon (it's not a bad weapon in terms of raid support) or you yourself activate a kaiser on top of a non HP weapon Joan and you would be fine. Plus you don't even need immunity for that entire turn, if you are using Dark and you have said Joan cut and Pluto's cut on you and you most likely will have some ATK downs on her the entire 5 hit wont do enough to actually kill a single unit that is unless your grid is under leveled to hell and not FLBed which isn't likely by the time the Light High Rag actually arrives

Again i have to highlight that im not trying to put Pluto on some goddamn pedestal, her CDs may make her a bit eh in people's eye but for an element like Dark? She would qualify as a team player, an amazing one regarding how little teamplay that element actually has

I have a question on how to keep advancing my weapon grid.

I'll use an example from one I have right now. I have an assault+ SSR with no limit breaks at level 50. It's total assault right now is 1258.
I also have an assault SR with full limit breaks at level 85. It's total assault right now is 1734.

Both are skill level 1 which means that I get +3% from the SR and +6% from the SSR. I currently have 40906 total assault (on the team page) and 15597 on the weapon page and 12288 on the Eidolon page. I'm not as worried about the double cost to raise the SSR (and I believe that I can brick it at a later date also). I more interested in should I switch it in now as it'll give me more total assault or should I use the SR and raise that instead?

Thoughts?

Dejnov.

Asking this here, should i use the ssr material for limit breaking an eido on a 100% eido or a kaiser dragon?

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Asking this here, should i use the ssr material for limit breaking an eido on a 100% eido or a kaiser dragon?

LB 100% eidolon give you both stat and element dmg, Kaiser just give stat

Originally Posted by Gludateton

--
Will you comment on berserk vs Lego's buff now ?

I wanted to do better than that, as I thought I was like one hour away from finally completing the more advanced damage calc. And here we are, 11 hours of marathoning later and it should be about done. Christ.

So anyway, right now I am cross-eyed and have seen way too much damage formulas. As such, I haven't even looked at your maths. Maybe tomorrow.
For now, here's the results of my calc, all stats are teamwide:
SSR Pluto: normal attacks 622k, burst 3.4m+1.8m bonus, damage/t: 1.7m
SR Beelz: normal attacks 646k, burst 2.7m+1.4m bonus, damage/t: 1.5m

Honestly, the biggest difference comes from Pluto's self-buffs and the fact that she's SSR which gives her the way higher base burst modifier. Again, not what I'd call a team player just because she has one ability which is capable of boosting a team, and probably not even every burst cycle.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Just gonna add that berserk allows you to do practically nothing outside of normal atk. While with Pluto's buff you can add spike damage to most notably FBs.

... so just why are you comparing such a limiting buff to Pluto's buff slashley?

What limitations?

You're the one who controls when you use Berserk. Do you need to trigger a damage cut the next turn? Then just don't use Berserk now, attack, use the damage cut AND Berserk. Not even Susanoo with her 2t CD will lose a stack during this "downtime." There are virtually no downsides to Berserk. SSR Beelz not counting, since uh, five turns while burning 50% of your HP is uh... interesting.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

I have a question on how to keep advancing my weapon grid.

I'll use an example from one I have right now. I have an assault+ SSR with no limit breaks at level 50. It's total assault right now is 1258.
I also have an assault SR with full limit breaks at level 85. It's total assault right now is 1734.

Both are skill level 1 which means that I get +3% from the SR and +6% from the SSR. I currently have 40906 total assault (on the team page) and 15597 on the weapon page and 12288 on the Eidolon page. I'm not as worried about the double cost to raise the SSR (and I believe that I can brick it at a later date also). I more interested in should I switch it in now as it'll give me more total assault or should I use the SR and raise that instead?

Thoughts?

Dejnov.

I have a feeling I've already answered this, but whatever. In the long run, the SSR will is better in your Grid even at level 50. Early on... maybe not since the loss of base Atk might be more for you than the 3% Assault.

Just for the record, to answer this very question and some others, I've made a "simple" damage calc to handle the maths for you. It's outdated since all it supports is Assault, but a more advanced and a complete pain-in-the-ass to use version is coming up soon(tm). The weapon comparison will probably forever be better in the "simple" version.

Originally Posted by Slashley

what limitations

... I literally said it in the quote. FBs.

That said, use berserk when you have skills on cd and not ready to burst, I understand. What I don't get is you comparing a buff that is used for that situation only, and a buff that can be used to maximise spike damage. How do they compare?

And with regards to Pluto's point. We've been repeatedly saying that we don't really care how good Pluto's team playing is with respect to other himes. She is the only relevant dark SSR capable of team playing. That dmg cut might be the only thing that's relevant to you, and you think it's slow. But that's fucking huge in an element that doesn't have other himes like that. That's our point you've been missing this whole time.

I find it pretty hilarious that somehow no one has brought up the new SSR Bastet yet in this whole thing, when basically that's all she does (darkness/cut/barrier/damage buff) and with pretty good cooldowns/uptimes too. Because let's face it, while those are nice and all, it's just not enough to really help dark.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I find it pretty hilarious that somehow no one has brought up the new SSR Bastet yet in this whole thing, when basically that's all she does (darkness/cut/barrier/damage buff) and with pretty good cooldowns/uptimes too. Because let's face it, while those are nice and all, it's just not enough to really help dark.

Not saying that she isn't one but there's some issues with Bastet: Her parameters from her abilities are very low.

Her abi1 blind is quite weak in both accuracy and proc rate, prolly SR tier even. Dmg wise it only does 2.5x dmg.
Her abi2, 1500 Barrier aside, is a mere 15% Light cut. Also barely helpful, especially against Lv90 Light who just pretty much rip through your defenses.
Finally, her abi3, the boost from it is also.... barely noticeable unless you are at very very critical health, a state which ideally you wouldn't wanna be in especially when a whole bunch of stronger Dark himes requires eating HP for their skills.

The only thing Bastet has going for her is her passive 5% Assault 10% HP boost to your team just by being on the team. If you take another look at her skills, you'd notice all of them are to help you slightly in bailing you from / delaying your wipe when you start losing members. She's basically designed completely with the mindset that she'd be subbed.

The verdict is, for a team player, she definitely does the job. But whether she is somebody I'd run as a key player on the front.... Eh, I'm not too sure.

Originally Posted by Unregistered No.51

Not saying that she isn't one but there's some issues with Bastet: Her parameters from her abilities are very low.

Her abi1 blind is quite weak in both accuracy and proc rate, prolly SR tier even. Dmg wise it only does 2.5x dmg.
Her abi2, 1500 Barrier aside, is a mere 15% Light cut. Also barely helpful, especially against Lv90 Light who just pretty much rip through your defenses.
Finally, her abi3, the boost from it is also.... barely noticeable unless you are at very very critical health, a state which ideally you wouldn't wanna be in especially when a whole bunch of stronger Dark himes requires eating HP for their skills.

The only thing Bastet has going for her is her passive 5% Assault 10% HP boost to your team just by being on the team. If you take another look at her skills, you'd notice all of them are to help you slightly in bailing you from / delaying your wipe when you start losing members. She's basically designed completely with the mindset that she'd be subbed.

The verdict is, for a team player, she definitely does the job. But whether she is somebody I'd run as a key player on the front.... Eh, I'm not too sure.

Just adding something that slipped my mind in previous post, her Dark dmg buff is from burst, being extra frame (weapon/summoning active) clashes with Kaiser buff.

She did very recently got a rebalance on DMM, giving her an extra 'Endurance(?)' buff to her abi3 which is a Def version of Pride, further reinstating her role as a sub + bail unit.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Honestly, the biggest difference comes from Pluto's self-buffs and the fact that she's SSR which gives her the way higher base burst modifier. Again, not what I'd call a team player just because she has one ability which is capable of boosting a team, and probably not even every burst cycle.

I think you are really underestimating damage boost from attack buff. It should be around 15-20% more damage, that's definitely not negligible. And what the fuck with "one ability", which one are you counting ? Or better question: which one you don't ? Damage cut or damage buff ? I don't care what you think about "50% damage cut with terrible up-time", but this shitty skill can give you two or three turns (or even more), which may or may not be game changer.
Also, for goddamns sake, you have Kamihime with two party wide buffs (both quite strong) and said Kamihime also can keep up with rest of team when it comes to FB, how can you not call this "team player" ? She may be good, she may be bad, but that completely doesn't matter when it comes to calling someone "team player".