Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Slashley

Honestly, the biggest difference comes from Pluto's self-buffs and the fact that she's SSR which gives her the way higher base burst modifier. Again, not what I'd call a team player just because she has one ability which is capable of boosting a team, and probably not even every burst cycle.

I think you are really underestimating damage boost from attack buff. It should be around 15-20% more damage, that's definitely not negligible. And what the fuck with "one ability", which one are you counting ? Or better question: which one you don't ? Damage cut or damage buff ? I don't care what you think about "50% damage cut with terrible up-time", but this shitty skill can give you two or three turns (or even more), which may or may not be game changer.
Also, for goddamns sake, you have Kamihime with two party wide buffs (both quite strong) and said Kamihime also can keep up with rest of team when it comes to FB, how can you not call this "team player" ? She may be good, she may be bad, but that completely doesn't matter when it comes to calling someone "team player".

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

--
And with regards to Pluto's point. We've been repeatedly saying that we don't really care how good Pluto's team playing is with respect to other himes. She is the only relevant dark SSR capable of team playing. --

Originally Posted by Gludateton

--
Also, for goddamns sake, you have Kamihime with two party wide buffs (both quite strong) and said Kamihime also can keep up with rest of team when it comes to FB, how can you not call this "team player" ? She may be good, she may be bad, but that completely doesn't matter when it comes to calling someone "team player".

I guess we simply entirely agree on the definition of a team player ￣\_(ツ)_/￣

My view on it is probably just entirely twisted as a person who absolutely loves pure support builds in MMOs that cannot do anything for themselves - something that seems entirely extinct these days. Somebody who doesn't contribute through their own damage, but earn their spot through boosting the everliving shit out of the rest of players DPS, now that's a team player *cough*Light Nike*cough*. Not something retarded that you find in today's MMOs, who carries their share of the damage AND just happens to have a party related booster. That's not a support build, that's just a DPS build who was given a party booster by the devs to make it more appealing. Pluto is part of the latter, and I just reject such a definition.

->Open Spoiler<-

In other news, I really shouldn't post that sleep deprived. Christ, with zero context on what those numbers are built around makes them completely pointless.

Originally Posted by Slashley

but earn their spot through boosting the everliving shit out of the rest of players DPS

Except that light nike has no place on proper light teams kappa.

If we look at the perfect ultra-whale teams, or the "only spend MTs on Light ever" teams that lag a bit behind, yeah, true. But as somebody pointed out, the perfect Light team has no place for monsters when it's full of gods.

However, as we're leaning more and more towards "play with elemental advantage," how much can we expect everyone to have the perfect team? When the game was new, we could expect that players would have one perfect or near-perfect team thanks to just one/two MTs giving you your element's hard carries. Nowadays, does that apply?

But since "just throw Light at it" meme is about to get very serious for the next year, do we start to expect that everyone is MTing for the perfect Light teams?

At the very least, I don't think that we can start assuming that everyone has the perfect team for every element. There are players like that, but focusing discussion purely on such a premise doesn't seem productive.

Originally Posted by Slashley

If we look at the perfect ultra-whale teams, or the "only spend MTs on Light ever" teams that lag a bit behind, yeah, true. But as somebody pointed out, the perfect Light team has no place for monsters when it's full of gods.

However, as we're leaning more and more towards "play with elemental advantage," how much can we expect everyone to have the perfect team? When the game was new, we could expect that players would have one perfect or near-perfect team thanks to just one/two MTs giving you your element's hard carries. Nowadays, does that apply?

But since "just throw Light at it" meme is about to get very serious for the next year, do we start to expect that everyone is MTing for the perfect Light teams?

At the very least, I don't think that we can start assuming that everyone has the perfect team for every element. There are players like that, but focusing discussion purely on such a premise doesn't seem productive.

Light teams that you can mix and match pretty flexibly, and obtainable at any time is too whale... but having a limited edition light Nike isn't too whale?

I don't follow the logic here. The whole point of the light argument back then wasn't just to show how light Nike doesn't fit into a good light team... it's also to highlight there are several perfect light teams, none of them involving light Nike.

And besides, we were talking about... dark. Light Nike doesn't make or break the element like Pluto does.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

-- but having a limited edition light Nike isn't too whale?

I never said that everyone should be expected to have a Light Nike.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

I don't follow the logic here. The whole point of the light argument back then wasn't just to show how light Nike doesn't fit into a good light team... it's also to highlight there are several perfect light teams, none of them involving light Nike.

Well, example my Light team is Sol, Shamash and Frey. What perfect mix and match Light team do I get?

Again, I don't think we should expect everyone to have a perfect team in every element, no matter how much you want to mix and match.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Light Nike doesn't make or break the element like Pluto does.

And I don't see how Pluto literally makes Dark. She does her own thing and does alright in it. Many other Dark SSRs do the same.

Unless (true) Light Rag has seven bubbles, I simply don't know why having Pluto or not would make or break anything.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I never said that everyone should be expected to have a Light Nike.Well, example my Light team is Sol, Shamash and Frey. What perfect mix and match Light team do I get?

Again, I don't think we should expect everyone to have a perfect team in every element, no matter how much you want to mix and match.

Well then that argument just stifles any discussion at all. No point in discussing the light meta if you're going to be using your own hime pool as a comparison.

Pluto

The points have been there all along. No, really, I'm asking you to find another dark hime that does 50% cut, has decent DATA and burst dmg, supports FB spike damage the way Pluto does in a single hime. I'm serious. The only other hime that comes close to doing that is Agaliarept with her analysis stacks, but that is even more anti-light focused than Pluto is. What you're looking at is Pluto herself, I need you to look at dark as a whole.

Originally Posted by Slashley

I guess we simply entirely agree on the definition of a team player ￣\_(ツ)_/￣

My view on it is probably just entirely twisted as a person who absolutely loves pure support builds in MMOs that cannot do anything for themselves - something that seems entirely extinct these days. Somebody who doesn't contribute through their own damage, but earn their spot through boosting the everliving shit out of the rest of players DPS, now that's a team player *cough*Light Nike*cough*. Not something retarded that you find in today's MMOs, who carries their share of the damage AND just happens to have a party related booster. That's not a support build, that's just a DPS build who was given a party booster by the devs to make it more appealing. Pluto is part of the latter, and I just reject such a definition.

I guess you don't like hybrids then. Don't bring you MMOs terms here though, because it doesn't work very well. Funnily enough Light Nike work best with slow teams (so not very offensive ones), because otherwise she would slow everybody down, she's like full support that you wouldn't take to party, because she just doesn't work in it... no, just don't use MMOs terms here.

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Funnily enough Light Nike work best with slow teams (so not very offensive ones), because otherwise she would slow everybody down, she's like full support that you wouldn't take to party, because she just doesn't work in it...

Whoa whoa whoa... hold on there, there must be some confusion going on around here. Light Nike doesn't slow anyone down and she's very offensive. She just takes a while to get to thermo nuclear power level. She doesn't drain her own amulets like pluto does her blocks, so you don't have to wait for her or anything like that. This is the same with metatron AW or any other power houses. The problem with these isn't that they "slow the team" down, but rather they are all competing for one spot on the team, a spot that is generally best taken by Lugh because of how ridiculously fast she can build up her power (granted, at the cost to her own health). But if you are going to be bringing Tish, she can easily carry anyone that you don't have to actually wait for anyways (the other two - Michael and Iris - are just undisputed).

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Whoa whoa whoa... hold on there, there must be some confusion going on around here. Light Nike doesn't slow anyone down and she's very offensive.

I may be mistaken here, but literally everyone in meta light team has some means of generating BG. There are some used that does not, but they are mostly used for provided utility (for example Sol AW). When you look at light it's ridiculous that pretty much every new light hime has means of generating BG faster, even goddamn Eros got +20 BG on affliction block.