[Event 21] Crucible of Combat vs The Demon Lust (Union Event)

I ran the numbers, and with a full grid of assault SR weapons (+130% attack), 2x +40% elemental attack is better than 2x +90% character attack (from Lilims) even in best-case scenarios for the latter (3x kamihime of the matching element). In addition, losing the Lilim buff due to a character dying is a significant risk that will tend to cripple the team in difficult content. Thus Lilims are recommended only for newer players who don't have much assault skill or don't have access to better eidolons.

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Originally Posted by sanahtlig

I ran the numbers, and with a full grid of assault SR weapons (+130% attack), 2x +40% elemental attack is better than 2x +90% character attack (from Lilims) even in best-case scenarios for the latter (3x kamihime of the matching element). In addition, losing the Lilim buff due to a character dying is a significant risk that will tend to cripple the team in difficult content. Thus Lilims are recommended only for newer players who don't have much assault skill or don't have access to better eidolons.

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Teamwise, the older eidolons might be better, but what about for individual team members? I've been relying heavily on Acala (buffed up by the Crowley soul line) for this event, so I'm wondering if a rampaging, double-attacking hime like her would benefit more from Lilims than the standard choices for eidolons.

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Originally Posted by Skulkraken

Teamwise, the older eidolons might be better, but what about for individual team members? I've been relying heavily on Acala (buffed up by the Crowley soul line) for this event, so I'm wondering if a rampaging, double-attacking hime like her would benefit more from Lilims than the standard choices for eidolons.

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Bringing it down to individuals doesn't change the underlying math. Changing the premises would require a source of elemental attack, such as from a temporary buff or elemental advantage. But if you have +130% attack and elemental advantage, none of this matters anyway, because if a maxed team with elemental advantage can't beat the content, then no one can. The point of optimization is usually to overcome worst-case scenarios (otherwise you'd be better off running easier content you could clear more reliably). Lilims introduce risk rather than mitigate it, which makes them a particularly poor choice.

The final nail in the coffin for Lilims is that Lilims are useless to anyone running a team with 4-5 same-element characters. That means that Lilim users will end up ostracized with only other Lilim-users available as friends. From a game theory standpoint, Lilims are doomed to fail.

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Originally Posted by sanahtlig

I ran the numbers, and with a full grid of assault SR weapons (+130% attack), 2x +40% elemental attack is better than 2x +90% character attack (from Lilims) even in best-case scenarios for the latter (3x kamihime of the matching element). In addition, losing the Lilim buff due to a character dying is a significant risk that will tend to cripple the team in difficult content. Thus Lilims are recommended only for newer players who don't have much assault skill or don't have access to better eidolons.

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The little amount of credit that goes to Lilim is that they're much, much better if you've... say, got three amazing SSRs, such as one offensive Wind and other two off-element support like... Sol and Cthulhu, then you can use Lilim to seriously buff up the core of your team (Soul and your Wind SSR).

So when you don't have the option of 5 Wind users vs. 3 Wind users to begin with, since that's all you have. Also, did your calculation include 90% character attack 40% elemental vs. 80% elemental? Because that'd be a much more fair comparison.


But yeah, Lilim probably still loses against double-elemental even in the unrealistic scenario of the "unfortunate rainbow gacha dream," and this is before factoring in the risk of somebody dying. But mostly because elemental attack is completely bonkers. Especially with a completely bonkers 130% weapon grid. And it's only going to get better with 45%+45% and then 50%+50%. ... or just whale it up for 120%+120%.

i managed to solo level 42 ultimate demon today during burst time, didn't expect it as i've thought there will always be someone to join so...sisn't record it :/
i guess that on the last days of the events when everyone use up their seeds it'll be easier, but for now...a battle vs lilim XD
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KtRXdmYdWK0

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Originally Posted by Slashley

Also, did your calculation include 90% character attack 40% elemental vs. 80% elemental? Because that'd be a much more fair comparison.

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Combining a Lilim with an elemental attack eidolon provides a damage boost, but if a character dies you're still screwed. Either you sub in a primary element character and risk losing your buff, or you sub in a 4th element character and risk only two characters getting the buff. Either way, you're gambling and you're going to lose about half the time. The small damage increase isn't worth the additional risk in difficult content. You might as well run the 3/5 matching element team with usual eidolons.

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Originally Posted by CaptainNoobCN

i managed to solo level 42 ultimate demon today during burst time, didn't expect it as i've thought there will always be someone to join so...sisn't record it :/

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I soloed a LV52 Ultimate just now outside of Burst time with full Union buffs (attack, HP, double attack, healing) and a Water team. It came down to a combination of some debuffs landing, lots of healing (Andromeda and Sol), and having Burst saved at opportune moments to avoid the Rage Overdrive. The double attack buff was likely essential to having Burst in time for each Rage Overdrive. But for auto-battle, replacing double attack with affliction resist down and going Mordred might have better results.

Well, first day's Burst Hours are done. Union got overexcited and way overextended, but whatever, it's not competitive so a little fun doesn't kill anyone. So I went along with the ride. we ended up at 110 kills (20+90). I doubt anyone will kill ult91 overnight, so that score should stick.

2.5m personal PP, 10m Union PP. I have a feeling I am outgrowing my Union.

Sometimes, they change the Burst times but sometimes, we can't get everyone on it
Attachment 6749
I was lucky I get in there, get some action

well, auto-ulti is limited for 18 for me, w/o buffs... auto-expert is 50.
cant really see point of doing much manual runs, but must say, since expert seems always give back that seed, im okay with a little spending for Ulti
(still waiting for next light event, having Sol, Metatron and Raphael shifts my gear towards light..)