Thread: Mono vs. Rainbow Grid

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

Gotta love it when some people just want attention.

Oh the irony

Originally Posted by Slashley

That's because they are. More on that in a bit.Of course you have 4 per element. Let's see now, counting double skills and Pride weapons as Assault:
Fire: 3 Assault, 2 Defender
Water: 2 Assault, 1 Defender
Wind: 2 Assault, 2 Defender
Thunder: 2 Assault, 3 Defender
Darkness: 3 Assault, 2 Defender
Light: 2 Assault

(5 + 3 + 4 + 5 + 5 + 2)/6 = 4 per element. Out of which half is Defender weapons. Three years is what it'll take before you'll be at a good spot for every Element as a rainbowgrid user.

So you have about four SSRs per Element. And? I've been playing since Crom's Crotch, so I've missed out on several SSR weapons. Yet, my Water monogrid is at 94%. Even if you had focused solely on SSRs and gotten ALL your SSRs to slvl20, my Water still is... 94-16-16-23... 39% ahead of your Water. Ignoring Light, my worst element Wind is at 73%, which is still 9% above your current maximum! When counting Pride as 16% that is, which isn't technically correct, but saying that it's 10% doesn't do the amazing Pride weapons justice. Anyway, at this point, your rainbow team MIGHT actually be better than my Wind, just because I've largely ignored investing in mine.

I've been playing the game for seven months, which is obviously months less than you have. And I seem to be losing in one Element, absolutely CRUSHING you in one, and doing slightly better than you in three? If we include Light, we can say losing in two Elements, but Light has had a whopping two events so far. Has anyone invested in Light? Maybe some who have pulled several Light SSRs, I guess. Anyway.

Where is your advantage again...?

Actually, I started my current account during the Jorm event. So at most it's about a month older than yours. And you haven't missed out on several weapons. At most, you've missed out on Jorm, Sandalphon, Crom, maybe Quetz, and either Phoenix OR Apoc. If you slacked off. And 3 of those were defenders, so like other mono grid users, you probably would have skipped them anyway. Or used them as fodder.

If you missed anything else besides those, it was a choice to do so.

I also like how you just throw out assault bonuses without mentioning what your attack stats even are. 160% assault on top of garbage attack is still garbage.

All of my teams have about 50k atk and deal around 30k per auto, per unit, with -40% defense. They also average around 10k HP with 40/20 + 40% element atk. Which is more than enough to AAB most (if not all) of all content we have had, and manually farm events at a quick pace.

And this is my advantage.

If you're just starting or still fresh, the time and investment into SR weapons will save you time in itself towards being able to clear harder difficulties and being able to reach the ability to auto battle farm. Early on, if you play with the mindset of only using SSR weapons, you're likely to drag out not finishing weapons and eidolons while forcing yourself to waste more important resources like elixirs and seeds because you're not able to farm efficiently (low PP gain from raid/union events) or not able to farm the highest level difficulty (running expert cause you can't do ultimate in advents).

No ones wants to have to run hundreds of ultimate advents on manual, let alone experts. The amount of time you could save on that by simply investing in a few SR weapons instead of waiting for a new event.

If you're to the point you can clear anything, then it honestly doesn't even matter what you do,

Originally Posted by Aidoru

If you're just starting or still fresh, the time and investment into SR weapons will save you time in itself towards being able to clear harder difficulties and being able to reach the ability to auto battle farm. Early on, if you play with the mindset of only using SSR weapons, you're likely to drag out not finishing weapons and eidolons while forcing yourself to waste more important resources like elixirs and seeds because you're not able to farm efficiently (low PP gain from raid/union events) or not able to farm the highest level difficulty (running expert cause you can't do ultimate in advents).

No ones wants to have to run hundreds of ultimate advents on manual, let alone experts. The amount of time you could save on that by simply investing in a few SR weapons instead of waiting for a new event.

If you're to the point you can clear anything, then it honestly doesn't even matter what you do,

This right here is another common response that makes no sense.

The point of rainbow isn't to ignore SRs entirely, it's just ignoring the SR SL. The need to start off with multiple SR lvl 85s, before moving onto SSRs (as a fresh player) is so obvious that I don't understand why anyone would think this is a vaild point.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

--
I also like how you just throw out assault bonuses without mentioning what your attack stats even are. 160% assault on top of garbage attack is still garbage.--

And I like how you throw out words like "garbage" without giving proper numbers. I just posted a small while ago actual numbers:
22910 vs 18176 from weapons.

Huh. It looks like the difference is 5k. And this isn't the only source of attack, mind you. ~6k is in Hime attack, ~12k is in Eidolons. So we're talking about:
41000 vs 36000
So like 14% higher base attack? This percentage doesn't directly relate to Assault, of course. Oh, and Rank gives you an atk bonus as well, further closing the gap. But I believe this to be quite small, so let's just ignore that.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

This right here is another common response that makes no sense.

The point of rainbow isn't to ignore SRs entirely, it's just ignoring the SR SL. The need to start off with multiple SR lvl 85s, before moving onto SSRs (as a fresh player) is so obvious that I don't understand why anyone would think this is a vaild point.

The way people have been discussing it seems as if this is a problem that applies to high level players because it doesn't. This debate of going rainbow or mono is only a problem for low level players. As I said, if you're able to clear all the current content, the decision of going mono or rainbow doesn't even matter.

Originally Posted by Slashley

And I like how you throw out words like "garbage" without giving proper numbers. I just posted a small while ago actual numbers:
22910 vs 18176 from weapons.

Huh. It looks like the difference is 5k. And this isn't the only source of attack, mind you. ~6k is in Hime attack, ~12k is in Eidolons. So we're talking about:
41000 vs 36000
So like 14% higher base attack? This percentage doesn't directly relate to Assault, of course. Oh, and Rank gives you an atk bonus as well, further closing the gap. But I believe this to be quite small, so let's just ignore that.

You completed misunderstood what I meant by saying "160% assault on top of garbage attack is still garbage." I thought it was a fairly easy to understand example of how assault bonuses depend heavily on attack stats to even matter. Everytime I have this discussion, mono grid users toss around assault bonuses without their attack value attached, as if it means anything.

And once again we've come to the topic of "Who deals the most damage?" which I believe I've already said mono SR grids do, and that this isn't what the discussion is about. Rainbow is a utility build that gives all your teams about the same strength, while doing similar (but less) damage to a mono grid user. While at the same time being able to take hits a lot better.

Essentially, rainbow is a build that sacrifices some damage for more versatility and to start reliably farming Ultimate and Ragnaroks at a faster pace than mono grid users can.

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

Everytime I have this discussion, mono grid users toss around assault bonuses without their attack value attached, as if it means anything.

Which I did state earlier...

Originally Posted by BakaHentai

-- Rainbow is a utility build that gives all your teams about the same strength, while doing similar (but less) damage to a mono grid user. While at the same time being able to take hits a lot better.

Essentially, rainbow is a build that sacrifices some damage for more versatility and to start reliably farming Ultimate and Ragnaroks at a faster pace than mono grid users can.

I still don't see where this "similar" or "faster pace" come from. Going mono gives you more damage, period. Need to live longer? Swap to rainbow. And you're not even behind "true" rainbow users. Hell, you're probably AHEAD of them.

Going mono just seems like a win-win. The only downside is more work for more power.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Which I did state earlier...I still don't see where this "similar" or "faster pace" come from. Going mono gives you more damage, period. Need to live longer? Swap to rainbow. And you're not even behind "true" rainbow users. Hell, you're probably AHEAD of them.

Going mono just seems like a win-win. The only downside is more work for more power.

A win-win huh? Almost every mono user I've known has struggled against several different Ragnaroks, including players who've been around as long as I have. Meanwhile, I've coasted smoothly against almost every single event we've had. And as far as I've seen, I'm the only player who managed to solo Ragnarok Dullahan, despite her 1 turn, instant death debuff spam while raging.

And "similar" and "faster pace" is coming from what this topic has been about.

If two players started the game at the same time, one goes mono and one goes rainbow. The mono user would do slightly more damage than the rainbow user, but the rainbow user would reliably start farming events faster than the mono grid user would because the rainbow user would always have -25% damage reduction and the mono grid user wouldn't.

Like all other players, for some reason you'd be quick to point out "well then mono grid user would just go rainbow to survive," but that isn't going to work. A mono user would be pumping all of their enhance mats into SR weapons for the team they plan on maining first and most of their power would come from SLs and not from stats.

Meanwhile, the rainbow user would be pumping resources into all the weapons with the highest stats first, SRs included. All of their teams would be stronger (notice how I said stronger and not "more damage") than the mono user because of that.

If their main team couldn't clear, (which it most likely won't, in the first few months) the mono grid user would switch to rainbow and a different team with element advantage, but it wouldn't be enough for them to win. First of all, the himes of that team might not even be maxed out, because the mono user never planned to use that team to begin with. And their stats would be far less than that of the rainbow user, especially since Mono users tend to use SSR defenders as fodder, or just simply skip them, which defenders most often have higher base stats than assaults do.

As time goes on, the mono grid user would continue to struggle against Ragnaroks off-element, get destroyed by rags that counter their best team, and destroy rags that their best team counters.

The rainbow user would not destroy any ragnarok element but they also wouldn't struggle against any either, so long as they have Mordred.

And like I said earlier, you can shoot for more damage if you wish, but the extra damage you get from a mono SR grid is not at all needed to clear/farm content in a quick and effecient manner.

Sorry to jump in but are you saying 'mono' is a player just using a single element team only? Because reading this topic I've been under the assumption this talk of mono is just the weapon grid. Players can and still use a different team for each element and have separate mono weapon grid for each team. This will not only give them more damage but also the elemental advantages.