Thread: Soul weapon discussion

Originally Posted by Unregistered

MEX takes too much context right now; it requires knowing that Master Points come in the future, knowing that souls can use said MP to learn up to 2 new EX skills each, and that one of the new ones for the Shingen line of souls is +20 burst to all on a 6 turn cooldown. And none of us ever refer to it by something resembling its name as this stuff isn't out here yet and we don't know the official translation's gonna be.
(btw, it's 鼓舞激励, or Kobugekirei. If you plug it into an online dictionary like jisho.org, you get back 'encouragement')

MEX = Master EX skill. Nothing complicated there. You're not gonna tell me any community refers to game terms with 100% fidelity to the official terms.

Also, what context is required out of knowing you have extra EX skills available to use? You just need to know it's there, and you can use them in the future. Done. Simple.

There's still the ambiguity that each soul line gets two new ex skills. So additional context somewhere in the conversation is needed to know that it's the +20 burst gauge ex and not the +25% burst streak ex.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

There's still the ambiguity that each soul line gets two new ex skills. So additional context somewhere in the conversation is needed to know that it's the +20 burst gauge ex and not the +25% burst streak ex.

Are there even any other MEX worthy of even mentioning?

A quick glance and only these caught my eye:
- Shingen's completely OP BS +20 burst party buff
- Mordred's orb eater (have fun with Cthulhu+Snow Raph+Dagon+Satan or something, huehuehuehuehuehue... no actual place in anything serious probably, but fun)
- Dartagnan's Mammon-like nuke. She can't PF anyway, so a nuke mite-b-cool.

Obviously, there's only one winner MEX.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Are there even any other MEX worthy of even mentioning?

A quick glance and only these caught my eye:
- Shingen's completely OP BS +20 burst party buff
- Mordred's orb eater (have fun with Cthulhu+Snow Raph+Dagon+Satan or something, huehuehuehuehuehue... no actual place in anything serious probably, but fun)
- Dartagnan's Mammon-like nuke. She can't PF anyway, so a nuke mite-b-cool.

Obviously, there's only one winner MEX.

You forgot Solomon cd reset MEX for tower.

Shingen's Burst Streak can have some usage.
Herc's Overlimit Buff is also not to underestimate.
Andromeda's Defiance Buff can be of use with a taunt/cover target.
Solomon's CD Reset is incredible useful.
Joan's stackable Def buff shine's in longer battles.

Notable mention:
Arthur's MEX are both not so bad. Her Crit buff is raid wide.
Sieg's Dmg upper limit Buff can have some usage as well.

In the end, most MEX skills can be of use, just like Souls. Unless you narrow your view on only a specific Team-Composition, then of course you will only use 1, maybe 2.

Originally Posted by Itoshira

--
Unless you narrow your view on only a specific Team-Composition, then of course you will only use 1, maybe 2.

Well, it's easy to say "narrow down and only view a specific thing" but... unfortunately the maths behind this game doesn't really bend that way. Is there ever a reason to use anyone except Shingen or Herc? And how can Overlimit compare to using PF on Herc?

Because it looks like Joan would be a thing for supporting (true) Ragnarok Disasters, but aside from that, are you really ever going to use anyone but one of those three?

->Open Spoiler<-

In before GO Soul specific missions, or ultra-space whales using Sieg to break damage caps.

There are plenty of reason to use other Souls then just Shingen or Herc. First of, if you dont have a team that has some decent speed, they are actually more of a burden or solo-actor when it comes to pacing.

Andromeda is even more important in True Ragnarok then Joan is (what use do you have for a random appearing dmg cut when there is no danger incoming?). Both together make the Raid inredible safe for everyone though.

Solomon becomes an incredable nuker with her reset skill, even outside of Tower. Dropping 2m+ damage in one turn can help out a lot on controlling bosses.

Hercs Overlimit makes her an incredible nuker and overall attacker in a couple turns already. With a mediocre setup I casually threw 1.8m Full Breaks around, not even mentioning her Burst damage that went to cap just like that.

Just some examples. Sure, if you have the perfect setup for a consistent 2/3 turn FB pacing, it makes sense to go for Shingen only.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Shingen or PF

Well good luck getting that early on. Remember HSP? Shingen's still only accessible to vets for a good bit.

Basically... while Shingen or Herc is the go to soul for us vets... you still gotta remember that for players before that stage, new metas surrounding MEXs for other souls are still possible.

Support

Joan and Andro. You need both the dmg cut and the sustain. Unless you run a raid of 12 perfectly organised Joans.

Using Arthur

Pretty convenient for still getting your fast PF options in hrag raids where getting MVP significantly reduces your grind.

Originally Posted by Slashley

Well, it's easy to say "narrow down and only view a specific thing" but... unfortunately the maths behind this game doesn't really bend that way. Is there ever a reason to use anyone except Shingen or Herc? And how can Overlimit compare to using PF on Herc?

Because it looks like Joan would be a thing for supporting (true) Ragnarok Disasters, but aside from that, are you really ever going to use anyone but one of those three?

->Open Spoiler<-

In before GO Soul specific missions, or ultra-space whales using Sieg to break damage caps.

People use Shingen and Herc as end game options, people who aren't strong enough have to opt in for other things. You use Joan or Mordred as a newbie, you use D'art on maybe some other situations that calls for it, Solomon with her MEX can sweep towers, gem time quests, dungeon crawling and Andromeda is also a core part of being raid support not just Joan. The only 2 i cant find a reason for most people to use are Sieg and Arthur. Why bother with Shingen or Herc if you are not a damage carry on high rags? You are not doing a huge part of the work so why not opt in for other shit that could help like Andromeda or Joan as you said.

Originally Posted by Itoshira

There are plenty of reason to use other Souls then just Shingen or Herc. First of, if you dont have a team that has some decent speed, they are actually more of a burden or solo-actor when it comes to pacing.

How so? Herc in particular offers you basically EVERYTHING you want. Damage, durability, debuff. How is that a burden in any way?

Originally Posted by Itoshira

Andromeda is even more important in True Ragnarok then Joan is (what use do you have for a random appearing dmg cut when there is no danger incoming?). Both together make the Raid inredible safe for everyone though.

Well, that'll depend on what kind of moveset these things have. That's something I'll know better when we get to see them in action.

Originally Posted by Itoshira

Solomon becomes an incredable nuker with her reset skill, even outside of Tower. Dropping 2m+ damage in one turn can help out a lot on controlling bosses.

And, when isn't just running Herc with her 700k not good enough? We're talking like one turn slower (700k nuke + auto-attacks should do it), while Herc is also:
1. immortal,
2. offers the team a unique debuff,
3. team-wide PF buff,
4. nearly guaranteed to not being Soul-capped for burst speed, which also results in higher attack damage in general.

It is difficult to imagine content where it's easier to give up ALL of that just so that you can move a boss in or out of Rage one turn earlier. I mean, it's possible, but 1. it needs to be content where's you're walking on thin-thread where one side is that you can clear it, and the other side is that you can't clear it 2. you need to be familiar enough with the content to be able to make the call that you should be able to do it with Solomon, but not with Herc without RNG landing just right - this for example takes out Tower since you can't just experiment with the content to see how it goes.

Originally Posted by Itoshira

Hercs Overlimit makes her an incredible nuker and overall attacker in a couple turns already. With a mediocre setup I casually threw 1.8m Full Breaks around, not even mentioning her Burst damage that went to cap just like that.

That doesn't sound right at all. Not only that you were glorifying 2m damage from Solomon just a few lines earlier, and now Herc is doing just about the same.

But also, just what kind of values does Over Limit offer? Since right now, I can't even find those from DMM wiki. Not Herc's Page or the MP page lists anything... it does seem to stack, but still calling doubt on that. Something like that might happen if you ran the Bow for example, and you wouldn't do that, would you?

This is the part where you say double buffed P2W Eidolons and that you're using the Bow for memes. Outside of a situation like that, it's still hard to see Overlimit out-do PF. Depends on the kind of values it has.



I mean, I'd just love to see more variety in Soul choices. But unfortunately, it's ultimately a game of maths, and the devs have made a couple of choices WAY too good to be true.

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Well good luck getting that early on. Remember HSP? Shingen's still only accessible to vets for a good bit.

Basically... while Shingen or Herc is the go to soul for us vets... you still gotta remember that for players before that stage, new metas surrounding MEXs for other souls are still possible.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

People use Shingen and Herc as end game options, people who aren't strong enough have to opt in for other things. You use Joan or Mordred as a newbie, you use D'art on maybe some other situations that calls for it, --

While true, this brings forth the next question: how accessible is MP to new players?

If it's like candy, then sure. Player progression will probably still stick to Mordred -> (Joan ->) meta (as in Shingen/Herc), but they can pick up new skills along the way... IF MP is easy to come by. And if the skills are better than the passive upgrades. And how much passive upgrades is 15 MP? Like 45% stats? That's a lot for a new player...

Originally Posted by Cobblemaniac

Pretty convenient for still getting your fast PF options in hrag raids where getting MVP significantly reduces your grind.

Does it? How does the drop system work?

Since at least for Ult Disasters, really the only that matters is that you're hosting. Whether or not get the extra Fragments... doesn't really even matter, thanks to the Shop system handicapping your purchases so badly. Even if the drop system is the same, maybe it'll matter more for the (true) Ragnaroks since I believe they require a hefty amount of Regalia to spawn, which makes them a massive chore to host in mass.