Thread: plat units = to blacks

Originally Posted by Eab1990

I've said before that Gellius wins in a battle of attrition. But to say he's the best tank in every situation is completely wrong. Again, if you can safely DPS the fuck out of something before it can kill anyone, then Gellius is not your answer.

Get a fucking clue already.

You just admited that he's the unit with the best staying power in the game , but aparently he's not the best tank ? Wut ? Then you speak of tanks , and you say that dpsers make better tanks ? wut again ? You're even contradicting yourself now. Why am i expecting an actual conversation ? And being a tank is not the same thing as being a dpser. Sure , sometimes dps duelists are better then denfesive duelists , but in that case , you don't fucking place a heavy. You place a tank when you need a tank , and gelius is the best tank (need i remind you what a tank is in games before we start arguing again?) duh

Originally Posted by lolix

You just admited that he's the unit with the best staying power in the game , but aparently he's not the best tank ? Wut ? The you speak of tanks , and you say that dpsers make better tanks ? wut again ? You're even contradicting yourself now. Why am i expecting an actual conversation ? And being a tank is not the same thing as being a dpser. Sure , sometimes dps duelists are better then denfesive duelists , but in that case , you don't fucking place a heavy. You place a tank when you need a tank. duh

Because *gasp* Gellius is not the only one doing all the blocking at any given time!

If you need healers elsewhere, or your archers are preoccupied with whatever's in the sky, or you're lacking in AOE or DPS or whatever else, then your argument that Gellius is the best tank in every situation that calls for it falls apart, because your entire argument has hinged on the mistaken notion that Gellius with outside support trumps all else.

No my entire argument hinged on people using their brains. He is the best tank when you actually need a tank. If you have flyers , do you need a tank ? No , you place ranged dps. If you have rush maps or swarms , do you place tanks ? You generally place anti swarmers or aoe dps , yes ?

If you actually do need a tank , gellius is the best.


Edit : yes unregistred , nadia fits exactly said situation : who would have guessed that you place a dps duelist when you need dps ? But even then , she won't be the duelist you place in 100% of cases. Meanwhile , if you nee dto place a heavy on a map , and you have gelius , u can easily place him instead of any other tank

Originally Posted by lolix

No my entire argument hinged on people using their brains. He is the best tank when you actually need a tank. If you have flyers , do you need a tank ? No , you place ranged dps. If you have rush maps or swarms , do you place tanks ? You generally place anti swarmers or aoe dps , yes ?

If you actually do need a tank , gellius is the best.

And absolutely none of those situations are mutually exclusive either.

Remember the G map with Minerva? A rush map of merfolk, goblin archers/necromancers, and demons, including the scythe bastards with ranged attacks. You needed DPS, a few tanks/lightning rod blockers, and probably some luck with assassination. But ranged slots were spread out and you had three exits to block, so you needed to concentrate your DPS and use tanks or duelists with high block, or have a shitton of AOE on hand. Or use rogues/ninjas and hope for the best, but that's obviously not ideal.

Everyone used spread-out heavies to deal with the clusterfuck, but there's a situation that Nadia would've done much better than Gellius would have.

So your argument basically is "he is the best tank all the time since he can tank golems"?

Because while he has the best staying power, saying he is the best tank for every situation is not going to help.

It's like saying archers are the best dps for every situation because they deal a lot of damage at a fast pace. Sure, you want archers for a lot of situations, but many times a mage can be great too.

In the same sense, Gellius is only really the best tank as long as he does at least one of the following:
-Removes the need for another healer
-Doesn't give you a problem because you lack damage
-Cannot be replaced because you need his extreme sturdiness

If he does neither, then saying he is the best tank for that situation is, and i hate this word, retarded. If anything else can accomplish the tanking duty and also deals more damage then they are obviously the -better tank for the situation-

I wonder if my comments mostly get ignored in face of continously answering the others, because i sure never feel like i get replied to.

i get the feeling that you people confuse terms : "tanking" is not the same as "blocking". Different nuances , and while a tank also blocks a blocker doesn't necesarily tank.

Blocking and tanking golems are literally the only things Gellius definitively has over Nadia, and Nadia gets around the former by having ground AoE.

But by all means, continue to destroy your own argument.

so let me get it straight. Nadia is better because she has better dps , even tho she costs more , blocks less , and is not even the best duelist in the game for most situations , but gellius is worse because he can literally facetank everything , even high tier bosses , costs less enough that there is little need to replace him with a cheaper heavy if you need a HA on the map , and has generally really high defensive stats ? But he is worse then her because she does damage. ok mate.


Edit : tenhou , and u don't see the same happening with nadia ? There are enough cheaper duelists or anti swarms out there capable of doing what she does (even if they have crapier dps , they will cost quite a lot cheaper , leaving enough room to place another unit on the field). You don't need an 2k dps anti swarmer for every map either.

Originally Posted by lolix

i get the feeling that you people confuse terms : "tanking" is not the same as "blocking". Different nuances , and while a tank also blocks a blocker doesn't necesarily tank.

There is no confusion. The problem is that you seem to think "when you really need a tank" means tanking golems and mega bosses. And everyone else thinks of tough situations with decently damaging mobs that a lot of things will not be able to handle.

Bernice and the blacks do an equally good work for pretty much every damn mob out there apart from the golems/bosses AND they deal more damage (Well, Bernice only with SA). So in that sense, Gellius is only really the best choice if he removes the need for another healer or something else would have died. Most heavy armours as well as Nadia do not die vs most of the standard heavy-hitters that are not mega-endgame-bosses-of-fucking-doom-and-deathination. So in that sense Gellius is probably not the best choice.

So there is the problem - you keep saying "tanking" as if every map in the future will include high end bosses and thus saying Gellius is best. Meanwhile the rest of us look at pretty much every other map where we do not face those ultimate bosses and seeing that Gellius can be easily replaced on those.

Edit: I had to google deathination and only usernames on different sites popped up. I shall now declare this as a new fancy word for ultimate destruction.

Originally Posted by lolix

You just admited that he's the unit with the best staying power in the game , but aparently he's not the best tank ? Wut ? Then you speak of tanks , and you say that dpsers make better tanks ? wut again ? You're even contradicting yourself now. Why am i expecting an actual conversation ? And being a tank is not the same thing as being a dpser. Sure , sometimes dps duelists are better then denfesive duelists , but in that case , you don't fucking place a heavy. You place a tank when you need a tank , and gelius is the best tank (need i remind you what a tank is in games before we start arguing again?) duh

Wait wait this situation it sounds so familiar where have I heard of this? Oh Nadia, she fits exactly what you said! Thanks for proving everyone's point. I want to crawl in that hole you dug it looks really comfy.