Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by Gludateton

Few nitpicks:
1) And 30 slvl. that's 21% Assault and 15% Defender (1% short of 20 slvl defender++) when maxed.
2) If SR defender is without +, it means it's dual skill, otherwise it's defender+ too. Also, if I calculate right gun is 893 Attack Power on 50 lvl, no way it's lose of 200-300 attack only. Remember that Ori weapons have rather bad stats (only slightly better than SRs).
3) Same idea as point 2

Now the question is: how reliably he can get Oris. If he can get enough to FLB all weapons and have spares, then he can consider buying gun. Buying gun if it allow him to get more Oris is good invesment too. Otherwise I'd against that. It's not like having 2 SR weapons is the end of the world (you can pretty much clear all content with it anyway.

I am glad that both you and Nut are pointing out my errors, because like I said I'm not a pro. I'm sort of in the same situation to be honest, except I chose to "think about it later" while working on other elemental grids, mainly for current tower event and the following Light Advent.

Sorry for not making it clear, 8 of my weapons are SSRs, 2 typhon lances(1 MLB), 1 iwanagahime hammer, 1 yatagarasu gun, 1 herc axe, 1 ares axe, 1 svarog axe, 1 uriel gun and them my SRs are iwanagahimes(assault and exceed S) and crom cruach spears(assault M). All of their SLs are Lvlv 10 up. I got a total of 44k atk in my fire grid. All my other grids are 40kish(39K for wind, light and dark). Umm what bow are u talking about?

Originally Posted by Schrophorclesss

Umm what bow are u talking about?

I'm guessing just as he mistakenly forgot about FLBs going to SL30, he's mistaking the gun from ori shop as a bow. And anyway to answer his question, again no, FLB'ing would be the priority for ori if you're limited on the amount you have. If you're doing gemcha and farming disasters daily, SL'ing stuff isn't hard. And FLBs as you've now figured out, boost the grid way more than anything else. So again, the priority for oris is FLB'ing. Only when you have excess oris leftover after you've FLB'ed all the wpns you can, only then should you experiment around buying stuff. Priority is FLBs first if you want to be efficient with your ori usage that is.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I had completely forgotten about SL cap becoming 30. Sorry my bad.

But just out of curiosity as I do not know about Schrophorclesss's circumstances, so I'll be using my own.
If I am barely scrapping by, having SL 14/8s for my fire grid. But all 5 other element grids are only on average SL5s. Would it not be more beneficial to grab the bow and getting it to SL8 while I work on getting my other elemental grids to SL 14/8 as well? I assume by the time I get enough orichalcum to FLB my typhon lance AFTER getting bow(and getting it to SL8) I would probably, maybe, have just gotten my other elemental grids to have a decent assault SL. Or would it be better to still FLB typhon lance first and dump everything to reach SL30, at the cost of my other grids.

Let's do some simple math about how to raise your grids.

It takes 45 sklvls to raise an SR to lvl 10 and 145 sklvls to raise it from 10 to 20 for a total of 190 sklvls. An SRR is just double that at 380 sklvls. You can reasonably get 60 Rs from the Gemcha daily which means you can raise a single SR every 3 days or an SRR every 6 days.

To get a full SR grid is 30 days, a full SRR grid is 60 days. For all elements that is 6 months or 12 months.

You can raise the R payout by using Grails (to lvl2), Holy Grails (to lvl5) and SR Weapons (to lvl4) first for fodder. Doing this will increase your sklvl per R weapon by 2 to 2.5x. If you did this you could cut the time down to 2.5 to 5 months.

If you do the standard raise SRs to 20 (since it's faster) and then replace with an SRR you will require, at best, 7.5 months to fully raise all your grids.

I would suggest to only raise some of your SRs to lvl 20, keep most at lvl 10 in the expectation that you'll be replacing them with an SSR and push to raise any assault/defender combo weapons as high as you can (including FLBing them) as they will stay in your grids for the longest duration. Other SSRs which are only Assault++ should be raised (if there's nothing else), but they only have 3% more than the SR and should be second priority. SRs should actually be the lowest priority, but should always be raised to 10 (or around 8) for your best bang to buck and eventual usage as fodder. An SR at 8 uses 28 sklvls and returns 28 sklvls when used to raise a different weapon. This is R neutral.


Dejnov.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

Let's do some simple math about how to raise your grids.

It takes 45 sklvls to raise an SR to lvl 10 and 145 sklvls to raise it from 10 to 20 for a total of 190 sklvls. An SRR is just double that at 380 sklvls. You can reasonably get 60 Rs from the Gemcha daily which means you can raise a single SR every 3 days or an SRR every 6 days.

To get a full SR grid is 30 days, a full SRR grid is 60 days. For all elements that is 6 months or 12 months.

You can raise the R payout by using Grails (to lvl2), Holy Grails (to lvl5) and SR Weapons (to lvl4) first for fodder. Doing this will increase your sklvl per R weapon by 2 to 2.5x. If you did this you could cut the time down to 2.5 to 5 months.

If you do the standard raise SRs to 20 (since it's faster) and then replace with an SRR you will require, at best, 7.5 months to fully raise all your grids.

I would suggest to only raise some of your SRs to lvl 20, keep most at lvl 10 in the expectation that you'll be replacing them with an SSR and push to raise any assault/defender combo weapons as high as you can (including FLBing them) as they will stay in your grids for the longest duration. Other SSRs which are only Assault++ should be raised (if there's nothing else), but they only have 3% more than the SR and should be second priority. SRs should actually be the lowest priority, but should always be raised to 10 (or around 8) for your best bang to buck and eventual usage as fodder. An SR at 8 uses 28 sklvls and returns 28 sklvls when used to raise a different weapon. This is R neutral.


Dejnov.

My god, please let me give you a kiss. This is exactly the kind of thing I need and love to discuss about. Most people I know nowadays don't bother to discuss games with numbers but instead expect someone to just hand them everything.


So I'm just wondering, if we say that all my off-elemental grids are filled with 10 SRs at assault sklvl 8. That gives me 10*7%=70% attack.

The cost of upgrading each one to sklvl14 would be 2 SR2(sklvls)s, 4 SR3s, 1 SR4(13->14 requires SR3+3R which is equivalent to SR4) and 4rs, which would be a total of 24Rs and 7SR per weapon.

IF we use base attack = 10,000, 70% assault is 17,000 and 100% assault is 20,000. The 30% assault increase actually translates into 17.6% damage increase. (1-[20,000/17,000])

Lets say hitting the 24R daily quota is easy since gem gacha gives double the amount, but we are getting on average 7SRs a day doing raids and gacha(which I'm not sure but could be 1-2).

Would you say it is worth spending 240Rs and 70SRs over the span of 10days for a performance increase of 17.6%.
This is assuming it'll be a month or two until the next event with the corresponding element.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

My god, please let me give you a kiss. This is exactly the kind of thing I need and love to discuss about. Most people I know nowadays don't bother to discuss games with numbers but instead expect someone to just hand them everything.


So I'm just wondering, if we say that all my off-elemental grids are filled with 10 SRs at assault sklvl 8. That gives me 10*7%=70% attack.

The cost of upgrading each one to sklvl14 would be 2 SR2(sklvls)s, 4 SR3s, 1 SR4(13->14 requires SR3+3R which is equivalent to SR4) and 4rs, which would be a total of 24Rs and 7SR per weapon.

IF we use base attack = 10,000, 70% assault is 17,000 and 100% assault is 20,000. The 30% assault increase actually translates into 17.6% damage increase. (1-[20,000/17,000])

Lets say hitting the 24R daily quota is easy since gem gacha gives double the amount, but we are getting on average 7SRs a day doing raids and gacha(which I'm not sure but could be 1-2).

Would you say it is worth spending 240Rs and 70SRs over the span of 10days for a performance increase of 17.6%.
This is assuming it'll be a month or two until the next event with the corresponding element.

I agree with your math, but I would say that it isn't optimal to actually waste 10 days for a 17.6% increase by raising SRs when you could instead spend 20 days and raise SSRs for the same amount, which will stay in your grid longer. At a later date you'll have to replace those SRs (lost days) with SSRs if you want to keep growing!!

Also note a level 10 SR (45 sklvl raises required) has a base assault of 8% (3%+5% from sklvls). To get an SSR to the same assault only requires getting it to level 4 (6% base + 2% from sklvls) which is only 12 sklvls (1+2+3)*2 and is far cheaper. It also has higher growth potential due to that +3% extra assault. If we assume base assault is 40k than 3% is 1200 additional assault. While it may be a loss on posted assault, even weapons that aren't limit breaked (SSR hime weapons at 0 LB) may end up giving you higher in combat stats than a full SSR (if they have both assault/defender on their skill list).

Priority List for Weapon Raises:

1) All SSRs with both assault/defender to as high as possible (FLB also)

1*) Any SRs to level 8 with both assault/defender to at least sklvl 10.

2) All assault SRs to sklvl 8

3) All assault SSRs to max lvl.

4) Unequally raise assault SRs past sklvl 8 (raise them one by one in the hopes you get to replace with an SSR before they become R loss fodder)

Dejnov.

Originally Posted by Dejnov

I agree with your math, but I would say that it isn't optimal to actually waste 10 days for a 17.6% increase by raising SRs when you could instead spend 20 days and raise SSRs for the same amount, which will stay in your grid longer. At a later date you'll have to replace those SRs (lost days) with SSRs if you want to keep growing!!

Also note a level 10 SR (45 sklvl raises required) has a base assault of 8% (3%+5% from sklvls). To get an SSR to the same assault only requires getting it to level 4 (6% base + 2% from sklvls) which is only 12 sklvls (1+2+3)*2 and is far cheaper. It also has higher growth potential due to that +3% extra assault. If we assume base assault is 40k than 3% is 1200 additional assault. While it may be a loss on posted assault, even weapons that aren't limit breaked (SSR hime weapons at 0 LB) may end up giving you higher in combat stats than a full SSR (if they have both assault/defender on their skill list).

Priority List for Weapon Raises:

1) All SSRs with both assault/defender to as high as possible (FLB also)

1*) Any SRs to level 8 with both assault/defender to at least sklvl 10.

2) All assault SRs to sklvl 8

3) All assault SSRs to max lvl.

4) Unequally raise assault SRs past sklvl 8 (raise them one by one in the hopes you get to replace with an SSR before they become R loss fodder)

Dejnov.

What if we include soul weapons into the picture? I'll use my dark team which although is not my "main" team but is something I am starting to work on as an example.

Weapons:
3 Assault ++ SSR at sklvl4
1 Pride SSR at sklvl1
6 Assault SSR at sklvl5 (will work on getting them to 8 as you've suggested)

Himes:
-Pluto: Atk Up (A frame 20) Dark Atk(a frame 30%) Light Rst(20%) Dmg Taken Reduced(30%)
-Satan: Def Down(a frame 15)
-Hypnos: Def Down(drowsiness 20%) Light Rst(20%)
-Paimon: Atk Down(C frame 15%) Atk Up (A frame 15%)

Soul skill: Sniper Shot Atk/Def Down (B frame 20%)

Total buff/debuffs
-Atk Up: A frame 20%
-Atk Down : B frame 20%, C frame 15% = 35%
-Def Down: A frame 15%, B frame 20%, Drowsiness 20% = 55%
-Light RST: 20%
-Pluto using blocks: Dark Atk up 30% and/or Dmg Taken Reduced: 30%

Which Soul Weapon should I focus on?
-Andromeda staff: 11~30% elemental attack, Def up : A frame 20% and D frame 20% which I lack since Light RST won't against non-Light enemies. I also get a heal which is the bait for her trap(res).
-Joan of Arc: 11~30% elemental attack/HP since both weapons are probably fine, but Joan is mainly for Atk Down: A frame 20% so I hit at the 50% cap when running Sniper Shot.

I know the best situation endgame-wise would be to get Hercules(still need to unlock Achilles first) with FLB Axe for 25% def down, and awaken Satan for Def Down: A frame 15% and an extra Dark Rst Down: 10% hitting exactly 50%. But this presents a few problems for me.
1) I would need to replace Hypnos with something else which I still haven't figure out which, best bet atm would be Diana for heal, and can alternate with Pluto and Paimon for permanent Atk Up. (Sadly all A frame)
2) Unless I can get Hades to cover Atk Down: A frame 20% which I will not count on, gacha rng and stuff, I am stuck with Sniper Shot which will put me at 50% Def Down and 70% Atk Down(which has 20% wasted for being over the cap). So in a sense this is not an option.
2*) If they hand out a miracle ticket anytime soon, I will likely be using it to perfect my main teams if there are available options. So it is also unlikely for me to grab Hades even if she is on available.
3) I am also required to get Hercule's axe FLB'd before it hits the maximum Def Down potential, whereas I could at least still have -50%/50% with Joan whom I could technically sit on LB0, and the weapon is sort of optional as well. But of course the boost in either ATK or HP would still be very welcomed. This allows me to focus my AP/BP on raids of my main element(fire>water>rest) for Hercules, effectively saving me more "total time".

I know that most people would say Joan>Andro almost all the time, except in this case my dark team has 0 Def Up outside of Light enemies. Joan has an awesome damage taken reduced, but to my knowledge, that is something which should be saved for overdrive nukes. 60% if I get the spear. Andro on the other hand, provides 40% Def Up with the staff and lasts for 3 turns meaning boss auto attacks and skills on the following 2 turns are reduced too, which is why I bothered to consider about the trap.


No matter which soul weapon I end up getting, will I rush it to sklvl20 or do I level it equally with my other assault SSRs? Personally I find it makes more sense to rush soul weapon sklvl to 20 then moving on to assault SSRs, just because 30% elemental attack or HP would probably benefit my team a lot more.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

6 Assault SSR at sklvl5 (will work on getting them to 8 as you've suggested)

I meant SR, wish I had that many assault SSRs in a single grid.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

--
I know that most people would say Joan>Andro almost all the time, except in this case my dark team has 0 Def Up outside of Light enemies.

Light Resist is damage cut just like Joan, and the other half of Pluto's ability.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

Joan has an awesome damage taken reduced, but to my knowledge, that is something which should be saved for overdrive nukes.

Depends on content. For example I use my damage cuts when I get to AQ5 boss, just because the fucker has high chance of triple attacking Hime, which can often lead to unfortunate deaths and loss of Full Burst.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

-- Andro on the other hand, provides 40% Def Up with the staff and lasts for 3 turns meaning boss auto attacks and skills on the following 2 turns are reduced too, which is why I bothered to consider about the trap.

I think you're vastly overrating Def Up. 40% Def Up is nowhere near as good as damage cut is.
In before "what the fuck Slashley" again, since it's been months and I still haven't properly checked it.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

No matter which soul weapon I end up getting, will I rush it to sklvl20 or do I level it equally with my other assault SSRs?--

Dual skill weapons and Soul weapons gain twice as much gain per Skill level, so yeah, they take priority to slvl20. I highly advice against the HP weapons, except for maybe Dartagnan in some situations. The 30% Elemental attack is just too damn good to pass up on.

And on a side note, you can't FLB Herc's Axe. The correct terminology is MLB.

Re: Joan vs Andromeda
Enemy design to this point has usually heavily loaded their damage output into overdrives and triggers. If you have to pick between one or the other, you're usually better served with the damage cut that can change a 'you lose/crippling' level attack into 'survivable/manageable' than a def buff that would change 'survivable/manageable' auto attacks/skills into 'manageable/irrelevant'.