Thread: Kamihime General Discussion + Q&A

Originally Posted by dreamlitz

That clears up a lot actually - you are using P(H) with a pride multiplier of 20, that is 20slvl pride(++). I have been using what is P3(H) in your image with a pride multiplier of 12, which is only pride(+). It turns out that makes a noticeable difference in how attractive pride looks. P2(H) is FLB pride(++), which neither of us are currently using in our discussion I believe.
To be more precise, it appears to be showing 2 pride(++) vs. 3 pride(++) and 1 vigoras(++)? You have a third image, which looks like 2 pride(++) vs. 3 pride(++) and 1 vigoras(+) with a smaller assault penalty for being (+) instead of (++).
Not sure how you end up with that, based on your formula, it looks like you have 3 20slvl assault(++) which have base assault of 0.16. Since you are using pride(++) in your formula, I assume you are comparing it to other assault(++), so without any pride, you should be looking at 5 assault(++) and 4 assault(+), all 20 slvl, which should be 132% assault giving a multiplier of 2.32 no? This is mere curiosity, that difference is not qualitatively material in any way whatsoever.

Correct on the formulas and the two pride++ vs. 3 pride++ and 1 vigoras.
I spit-balled the total assault with the pride++ being replaced with an assault++, but it should have been 2.38 as opposed to 2.36 (my guess). And that's because the Union Event weapon is a Pride++/Ascension weapon which I've FLBed to skill level 30 for 15% base assault and also the pride bonus. This is the main reason I'm so interested in the Vigoras item. If you're playing Light you get two staple weapons in each Union Event that you will FLB and one of them is Pride. It's damn near hard not to have 1 (or 3) pride weapons in your grid as the best non-Hime bricked weapons are Pride/Ascension and Assault/Burst. You can at a later date move the staffs out, but we're talking way into the future and a lot of the advent weapons just can't be FLBed either. My going in assumption is that you're going to have Pride in your grid; you're just not going to have the alternative of an all Assault grid any time soon. Making that work with one SR Vigoras weapon is important to the medium term.

Btw, the shortcut I use is start with what your grid would be before you make your pride/vigoras decisions. For every pride(++) I add, I assume I replace an assault(++), which means I lose 6% base assault for a 0.2 increase in pride multiplier. For pride(+), I assume I replace an assault(+), which means I lose 3% base assault for 0.12 pride multiplier. For vigoras(++), I lose the entire assault(++), so lose 16% base assault for 20 vigoras base (slvl 20), and for vigoras(+), lose 13% base assault for 16 vigoras base.

Agree. You should always try and replace similar power weapons for similar power in these calculations. Real options will toss wrenches into the actual outcome, but shouldn't be part of the analysis.

One thing I dislike about pride/vigoras setup regardless of whether you are looking from perspective a or b is that it usually results in you losing assault around the center of the curve, which is usually where you spend most of your time in. What is good really depends on your build and what you are fighting as well. It sounds like you have an abilities and burst heavy build, so you want vigoras for abilities and pride for burst (assuming you eat some dmg to build burst quickly.) You also heal better than me, so you can more easily move your mid-hp himes back up to full health, whereas I might just be moving them around on the flat part of the curve for no gain at all. This discussion made me much more aware of what the curves look like and where those breakeven points are =)

Btw, when I added a second vigoras weapon, it tends to either look like regular vigoras or you come out ahead only at extreme hp ranges depending on how many pride weapons you pair it with. Would be curious to see if you find a combo that you like.

If you have Sol and the Union Staffs, you're going to be able to heal greatly. After she's awakened she gets a 50% buff to her healing and the staffs also adds 40% (after FLBing). It's going to take a lot to move Sol out of the Light line up and only a little to keep her in (Tiara set bonus). I didn't like the second Vigoras in the mix either. It's too much loss in the middle of the curve. With the single Vigoras and 3 Pride weapons, it's about 4% loss in the middle ranges (~70% to 80%), 10% gain at the top and you keep the Pride low hit point curve gain intact. That's a very favorable assault profile and complements Pride weapons nicely. I can always start replacing the combo after I get Hime Assault/Defender weapons, but that's a long ways (and bricks) away.

What I am showing here is a base case without Abou, and a change case with Abou and vigoras at various elemental level (A = assault, E = elemental, V = vigoras base.) All curves normalized such that the base case is at 1. The first case you described is the blue line - sacrificing 40% elemental for Abou; I also added sacrificing 13% assault for vigoras. Still doesn't look great. The second case you described is the yellow line, even worse. In fact, there is no reason you would do that 'cos the curve is always below 1. The one case where it looks very attractive is the one I pointed out in an earlier post: soul weapon + 100% eido friend + replacing your own 40% eido with Abou, that is the red line. As you can see, that sticks very close to 1 then goes above 1 around 70% hp, all the way up to 20% gain. For comparison, the pride/vigoras combo we were discussing gives you max of around 12% gain relative to all assault. It gets better if you have higher assault (green line) or higher elemental (LB or 120% friend eidolon - I did not bother plotting that one 'cos I don't have LB fluffy friends, and 120% eido dun exist for light.)

So, if you are in my boat, where you have a few friends with fluffy but you don't have one yourself, Abou may be worth considering. I think you mentioned you have LB2 thunderbird though, so it may not be attractive to you, since you are sacrificing 50% instead of 40% elemental (it will end up between red and blue line.)

I have no big issue with Abou; it's an option if you don't have a better elemental Eidolon and, as your analysis shows, can shine when combined with Vigoras. I believe that's why I was not super excited about my testing with Fluerety (wind version). I didn't have a wind Vigoras weapon to pair it with. By itself it just didn't seem useful.

That Vigoras SR weapon is pretty clutch. I might actually Eido Orb up two of them just in case. Better to have a spare than to not and want it later.


Dejnov.