Thread: What Soul to Unlock?

Originally Posted by fucka

Generally Assist skills buff the whole group. In case of rosenkreuz/solomon, they only buff themselves.

*Long lecture about Solomon's Ring*

I don't actually care all that much about Solomon's Ring, though the explanation about how ability damage modifiers affect skills with damage multipliers was useful. As usual, the game mechanics are needlessly unintuitive, and it's left to players to figure out how they actually work. But my takeaway from this isn't that ability up modifiers are good--it's that other modifiers scale terribly. In the end, a good modifier becoming less good over time doesn't make a bad modifier good. It's still bad; it's just that the alternatives are now worse. But I've also been saying for a while now that temporary character attack buffs are overrated.

But I'm more interested in where this assumption comes from that assist skills buff the whole group. Where's the evidence / what's the source for this?

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

I don't actually care all that much about Solomon's Ring, though the explanation about how ability damage modifiers affect skills with damage multipliers was useful. As usual, the game mechanics are needlessly unintuitive, and it's left to players to figure out how they actually work. But my takeaway from this isn't that ability up modifiers are good--it's that other modifiers scale terribly. In the end, a good modifier becoming less good over time doesn't make a bad modifier good. It's still bad; it's just that the alternatives are now worse. But I've also been saying for a while now that temporary character attack buffs are overrated.

But I'm more interested in where this assumption comes from that assist skills buff the whole group. Where's the evidence / what's the source for this?

Solomon's ring is an example for its kind. Susanoo's first ability hits 8x times, Brahma's first hits 8x times too. Soul is free, SSR kamis...only with luck.

Basically, all true effects of buffs are easily to calculate. Attk buff % / (1+weapon buff%) = real %,
so 20% attk buff and 100% weapon assault buff give 20% / 2 = 10%. If 160%, then 20% / 2.6 = 7.6%

For ability buff, you need to take the ability damage multiplier as divisor.
20% ability up / ability damage multiplier = real %, solomon's ring gets less than 1. It's weak actually and it doesn't benefit much from type advantage. Only later, when other buffs get their Diminishing Return, this ability will shine.

Assist ability is weird. As far as I read, All soul's assists only buff themselves and kami's assist applies to the whole group, when active (not in the sub slot) I got the information from chinese forum, based on their own calculation.

The real % for description "small, middle and big" are all different, big could mean 20% or 30%... DMM also often changes parameters and there are cap for the damage, that a kami/soul can deal with their ability... Even some SRs can do incredible damage under certain circumstance, their potential is limited, because they will hit their cap. The cap for SSR is much higher than SR.

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Originally Posted by felix

yeah, but after reading your detailed explanation in post #28, i wrote post #30, which you apparently didn't bother to read, since that's where I admit, that solomonring is not as shitty as i gave it credit



That's quite presumptuous. Do you know me? Are you my calculus teacher? Just because i cant be bothered to do math in this game, it isn't my strength? Great logic there.



Because your responses entertain me.



Ooooh, you got me there, this sentence makes as much sense as your logic, and that's quite an achievement.

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I'm pretty sure it comes from tutorial popup when you enter a menu for the first time (i think it was a tutorial on 1st opening of "edit" menu). I might be wrong here, but i believe it says there that assist skills do affect whole group. gona create new account to double check.
No, nevermind, it doesnt say anything about assist skills.

You are entertaining me too. Someone got beaten by elementary school's math. Words are inaccurate, figure is exact,
so figure >>> mememememememememememe, mememememmeememe, memememememememe.
There is good reason, why you intended to avoid the post #33 and return to those shit talk without any sense. I offer you the chance to contribute some constructive information, but it seems you can nothing else than shit talking.

So keep entertaining yourself , you really need it. Topic closed.

Originally Posted by fucka

There is good reason, why you intended to avoid the post #33

Are you serious? Avoid post? Ok, lets take a look at post #33... Hmmm... Your math is correct! Great job! What else do you want to hear? I already stated in the post before yours that Solomon can do dmg with her skill, so your entire post was unnecessary (you proved a point to which i already agreed... Let me give you an example

- 5*5=25
- Ok, i agree.
- No, look at this detailed explanation about why 5*5=25...
- Relax, i said i agree with you.
- No, you dont, i need to prove to you even further, that 5*5 is indeed = 25...

And that's the reason why i "avoided" it: there's nothing to say about it. Oh, i get it: you want me to praise you like our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ for posting some math calculations? Well sorry, I'm an atheist and don't praise no gods.

P.S. You were the one to start shittalking...

Originally Posted by fucka

Can't you read?! .

And you were the one to return to shittalking...

Originally Posted by fucka

I think you and felix are smart enough to understand the simple math , hm, felix, maybe not...

So joke's on you, smartass.

Originally Posted by felix

Are you serious? Avoid post? Ok, lets take a look at post #33... Hmmm... Your math is correct! Great job! What else do you want to hear? I already stated in the post before yours that Solomon can do dmg with her skill, so your entire post was unnecessary (you proved a point to which i already agreed... Let me give you an example

- 5*5=25
- Ok, i agree.
- No, look at this detailed explanation about why 5*5=25...
- Relax, i said i agree with you.
- No, you dont, i need to prove to you even further, that 5*5 is indeed = 25...

And that's the reason why i "avoided" it: there's nothing to say about it. Oh, i get it: you want me to praise you like our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ for posting some math calculations? Well sorry, I'm an atheist and don't praise no gods.

P.S. You were the one to start shittalking...



And you were the one to return to shittalking...


So joke's on you, smartass.

After 5 hours u finally find out that 5*5=25 and 25=5*5, I'm proud of you. Elementary school level, just like I said.
But you still miss the point, because the simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff, and not how the math works
Im glad u have used 5 hours to understand the math. 3 years old kids need longer. You have reach the level of 8. you see, how fast you are growing up?!

Mememememe, good for you know?

Originally Posted by fucka

After 5 hours u finally find out that 5*5=25 and 25=5*5, I'm proud of you. Elementary school level, just like I said.
But you still miss the point, because the simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff, and not how the math works
Im glad u have used 5 hours to understand the math. 3 years old kids need longer. You have reach the level of 8. you see, how fast you are growing up?!

Mememememe, good for you know?

This post in its entirety is shittalk and you accuse me of "only shittalking"? Hilarious.

On the serious note, you are the one who missed the point: check post #30. I said, i get your point about the scaling and how damaging solomonring is. Yet you continued to post all those math calculations... For what purpose? To prove the point to which i already agreed to? "simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff" Ok, i get it. I got it even before you posted #33. What now? Do you want me to write an official statement about how fully i agree with your point? Sorry, not gonna happen.

Just watching

So in short, Solomon is little less useless than it seems to be when you see her first time but still useless.
I just don't see why would I take her over any other soul.

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Originally Posted by felix

This post in its entirety is shittalk and you accuse me of "only shittalking"? Hilarious.

On the serious note, you are the one who missed the point: check post #30. I said, i get your point about the scaling and how damaging solomonring is. Yet you continued to post all those math calculations... For what purpose? To prove the point to which i already agreed to? "simple math is used to show how the ability scales with buff" Ok, i get it. I got it even before you posted #33. What now? Do you want me to write an official statement about how fully i agree with your point? Sorry, not gonna happen.

u want to say is that Solomon does nothing for group and Arthur provides group buff. And All Solomon self buffs are useless because her active ability does moderate damage. I never miss your point.

Your assumption is true as long as your weapons and equipments are low.

All Sr assault weapons at lvl20 skill up give 130% character attack up, that means the 20% attk up would be cut by more than half, so lower than 10%. And 8% ability up seems to be low but in fact it's better than the figure shows to you. That's the reason why I use math to explain it.
Solomon''s self ability buffs aren't affected by high character attack up. And ability buffs work only good for skills like Solomon's ring.
If you have kamis with 8hits ability and use eidolons + friend providing ability up, Arthur won't benefit a little from it, because he is focused on burst.
On the other hand you are able to double Solomon's ring damage which is immposible through other buffs. The ability is able to hit 480k damage cap.
What's the purpose if you use Arthur in a team which is focused on ability damage up?! In that team setup solomons ability hits more than Arthur burst attack...

If you have trouble beating a boss because the damage is too low, neither Arthur nor Solomon can compete with mordred and andro.

I also wrote Arthur, Solomon, Siegfried etc are nice to have but not necessary, because they are mostly used for MVP stealing in raids. You could use 1 turn ability burst with Solomon, which is really flexible, or burst and standard team with Arthur. It depends on the ssrs and eidolon u get in game.
I wrote you need specific requirements if you want to use Solomon. Should I repeat "specific requirements " 50000x times for you?
And which requirements are needed, I guess I have explained enough...

Did I claim something wrong, if I said you can't read?!

Originally Posted by fucka

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u want to say is that Solomon does nothing for group and Arthur provides group buff. And All Solomon self buffs are useless because her active ability does moderate damage. I never miss your point.

Your assumption is true as long as your weapons and equipments are low.

All Sr assault weapons at lvl20 skill up give 130% character attack up, that means the 20% attk up would be cut by more than half, so lower than 10%. And 8% ability up seems to be low but in fact it's better than the figure shows to you. That's the reason why I use math to explain it.
Solomon''s self ability buffs aren't affected by high character attack up. And ability buffs work only good for skills like Solomon's ring.
If you have kamis with 8hits ability and use eidolons + friend providing ability up, Arthur won't benefit a little from it, because he is focused on burst.
On the other hand you are able to double Solomon's ring damage which is immposible through other buffs. The ability is able to hit 480k damage cap.
What's the purpose if you use Arthur in a team which is focused on ability damage up?! In that team setup solomons ability hits more than Arthur burst attack...

If you have trouble beating a boss because the damage is too low, neither Arthur nor Solomon can compete with mordred and andro.

I also wrote Arthur, Solomon, Siegfried etc are nice to have but not necessary, because they are mostly used for MVP stealing in raids. You could use 1 turn ability burst with Solomon, which is really flexible, or burst and standard team with Arthur. It depends on the ssrs and eidolon u get in game.
I wrote you need specific requirements if you want to use Solomon. Should I repeat "specific requirements " 50000x times for you?
And which requirements are needed, I guess I have explained enough...

Did I claim something wrong, if I said you can't read?!

As i stated in post #30, i acknowledge your points and i agree that Solomon is capable of dealing massive damage in right situation. I also stated that me, liking Arthur or any other soul over Solomon is my PERSONAL OPINION. I just dont like such a narrow specialization of Solomon, i'd rather have someone who can benefit everyone, even if marginally, but again, its PERSONAL PREFERENCE. Ok, fine, she can do deeps up her ass, i just dont like her, its personal opinion, im not saying you have to agree with me. You like her? You play her. I dont like her, im not gonna play her. I did withdraw my statement that her skills are shit, so there was no point in posting all those math calculations, at that point they are not proving anything, simply because everything is already proven.

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Originally Posted by sanahtlig

The best way to test this would be to assemble a group of kamihime, all with attack increase assist skills, and see if this increases the damage the soul does (vs. a group with 4 kamihime with no assist skills that influence damage, or a group that only includes the soul). Theoretically a stacking buff from 4 kamihime, even if the individual buffs were small, would add up to a very significant effect that would be readily observable. To maximize the relative effect, the soul should have no buffs from assault skill (so change the soul's element accordingly). Obviously the tests would have to be run on the same enemy (like a Disaster boss), since different enemies could have different base defense values.

As far as i know, kamihime assist skills work on everyone (at least according to the fact that people praise Bastet for her assist "dark character HP up" working, even when shes on the sideline.) Question is whether or not Soul's assist skills work...

Originally Posted by fucka

Assist ability is weird. As far as I read, All soul's assists only buff themselves and kami's assist applies to the whole group, when active (not in the sub slot) I got the information from chinese forum, based on their own calculation.

The best way to test this would be to assemble a group of kamihime, all with attack increase assist skills, and see if this increases the damage the soul does (vs. a group with 4 kamihime with no assist skills that influence damage, or a group that only includes the soul). Theoretically a stacking buff from 4 kamihime, even if the individual buffs were small, would add up to a very significant effect that would be readily observable. To maximize the relative effect, the soul should have no buffs from assault skill (so change the soul's element accordingly). Obviously the tests would have to be run on the same enemy (like a Disaster boss), since different enemies could have different base defense values.

Assuming a cumulative effect of at least 20% or so, 10-20 normal attacks each in the experiment and control group should be sufficient to spot it statistically.