Thread: What Element Should I Main?

Originally Posted by Yolodesu

Ppl that still think one is better than the other are just as dumb as a brick.

Have it all

End of the day it's a matter of what you need/ want the most out of your current build, and miracle it. Otherwise, all gacha games are built around the system of "we take those"

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Light is actually well-suited for a Burst build since it has access to Affliction resistance down, which is built into Tsukuyomi's Elemental resistance down ability. With Shingen+ Sniper Shot, Sol, Light Tsukuyomi, Diana/SSR Artemis, and Michael, you can reach -40% ATK (-50% with eidolon) and -50% DEF. If you wait for Sphinx to be ready before Burst and debuff reapplication, debuffs missing shouldn't be a problem in most encounters.

The main problem Light has is that it needs to run Sniper Shot or sacrifice -ATK or -DEF, and therefore won't usually have access to Black Propaganda. Raphael (subbed for Diana/SSR Artemis and used with Vine) can mitigate this issue somewhat by making a Rage Overdrive less likely before the Burst. Light can also run Amaterasu instead of Diana/SSR Artemis to free up the EX slot for Black Propaganda. This will reduce damage, but once Shingen gets her Relic weapon that doubles Burst damage, the loss won't matter as much. Giving up on the class B debuff entirely and running with low -ATK like a Fire team, once SSR Artemis is available, is also an option due to Light Tsukuyomi's excellent Blind.

Again, i'm not saying you can't play damage build with light, but what you're pointing at (element rst down and -50% def debuff), other element will also have access to it soon enough. On top of that, water and dark have access to all needed debuff trough KH, so don't have to sacrifice anything, lightning and fire will compensate with KH with good damage output.

Alternative options you're giving (dark amat and trade -DEF KH for vine) both reduce your damage output. so for a damage build... meh.

With the debuff CD fix (in Accessory Quests), ATK debuff nerf, and Vine (really important to a lot of builds right now), offensive builds have overtaken endurance builds in terms of relative potency and ease of use in solo content. The ATK debuff cap severely nerfed pure Endurance builds. This lead will only grow as the +100% eidolons are released and become available as Friend eidolons. Endurance builds won't regain this lost ground until the introduction of weapons with the Ascension skill, which massively increases healing.

I'm not sure if we want to consider the far off future or the near future at this point.. Light currently is pretty good dmg-wise because currently only water & light got access to 50% def debuff & to top it, light's is light element unique. And secondly, the OP dmg dealers are yet to be introduced in the game, so this "damage build" is pretty silly compared to those. Currently only thing that really makes difference is more def debuff.

As for far-off future, yeah. Light.. isn't cut for dmg based builds. Sure you can just throw in whatever you got as a "dps" unit, but you will do nowhere enough dmg compared to other elements. Wind bursting all the time, dark getting OP selfbuffers with Pluto to boost 'em, thunder is starting to outdmg even fire which is just called "explosion". Water is.. well. Nearly the same as now. Light is more of a survivor element.

And as for heroes(souls).. once hero weapons are introduced, I will go with Hercules. The weapon has -25% def debuff burst effect, which will cover for 50% with Diana/SSArty + Tsuku, so you can EX Shingen's burst buff, and it's enough to have it when you burst.. for light, that is. Ofc, that's for soloing, you can freely adjust your team for raids, but as I mentioned, light won't be able to compete with other teams in dps.

Originally Posted by Yolodesu

Again, i'm not saying you can't play damage build with light, but what you're pointing at (element rst down and -50% def debuff), other element will also have access to it soon enough. On top of that, water and dark have access to all needed debuff trough KH, so don't have to sacrifice anything, lightning and fire will compensate with KH with good damage output.

Alternative options you're giving (dark amat and trade -DEF KH for vine) both reduce your damage output. so for a damage build... meh.

Each element has a weakness of some sort in their Burst build. A perfect Burst build needs healing, -50% ATK/DEF (3 abilities minimum, generally 4 if you won't use Vine), at least +15 Burst gauge, Affliction resistance down, and Overdrive extension. That's ~8 abilities and you only have 13 slots (+1 for Shingen's EX). In general, each kamihime will have 1-2 abilities that cover these core needs. Getting all 8 at once is more or less impossible. Let's examine.

Water: Missing Affliction/elemental resistance down. If you run this as EX, you'll need Ryu-Oh to cover overdrive extension. But if you run her, you can't run SSR Nike or Snow Raphael, which means you'll be missing healing or -ATK.
Dark: Close to perfect (has to choose between -DEF and utility skills like Cleanse and Dispel), but the build requires Dark Amaterasu, who is limited. Otherwise it's missing -ATK or overdrive extension.
Light: as discussed; has to choose between -ATK, -DEF, or Black Propaganda
Fire: Has to choose between -ATK and -DEF. Deficient in healing.
Wind: Has to choose between Black Propaganda and Affliction resistance down. Also needs to run Vine unless the player has access to Hraesvelg (Wind's +100% eidolon).
Thunder: Missing 2+ debuffs (including Sniper Shot and overdrive extension). Baal's super elemental resistance down has a halved duration, making it extremely difficult to keep up. You'll likely end up using it to reduce affliction resistance or DEF, but not both. Thunder's only good healer (Thunder Aphrodite) is limited.

Originally Posted by nonsensei

And as for heroes(souls).. once hero weapons are introduced, I will go with Hercules. The weapon has -25% def debuff burst effect, which will cover for 50% with Diana/SSArty + Tsuku, so you can EX Shingen's burst buff, and it's enough to have it when you burst.. for light, that is. Ofc, that's for soloing, you can freely adjust your team for raids, but as I mentioned, light won't be able to compete with other teams in dps.

Subbing Provisional Forest isn't a substitute for Shingen at that point, since it's +40% vs. +100% damage on Bursts. It's basically Shingen or bust if you're looking for pure spike damage.

Originally Posted by sanahtlig

Subbing Provisional Forest isn't a substitute for Shingen at that point, since it's +40% vs. +100% damage on Bursts. It's basically Shingen or bust if you're looking for pure spike damage.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ No comment on that. Like I mentioned, light is not made for spike damage.

If nothing else, I'm amused at how Shingen further highlights how crippled Metatron will be for another half a year.
Provisional Forest maxes out at +200% to the burst multiplier. The current cap is +300%. Metatron's entire purpose in life can thus only add another +100% to that... which is equivalent to 1x normal hit in damage.
Michael of course blows away Metatron here by ensuring Shingen's burst and thus also the difference between 4-person and 5-person burst streak (ie going from 33% to 50%). But we already agree on that.
I tend to think that Raphael's orb removal and rage gauge reduction still offers more than current-Metatron in a burst build though... :P

What's particularly good about Michael is that the Burst gauge bonus is +20 rather than +15. That allows Shingen to Burst within 1T. That makes a big difference when you're trying to time a Burst for when the boss is Raging, but before it uses its Overdrive. 2T out makes it much more likely that you'll get the timing wrong and eat that Overdrive, possibly causing a wipe.

Oh, yea, the newest SSR on DMM, Vohu Manah, apparently fills that element resist debuff hole for water. That particular debuff looks to be quite strong, but at high cost (eats 30 burst gauge). Looks like she'll have to be slotted in 4th/5th slot and/or you play around with her first two skills more carefully.