Thread: The Summon Beast in the Earth Guide

Yeah... "casuals"? Is that the new term for "anyone who doesn't agree with me"?

I started during the Karma event. I tried the first map, saw that farming for the dropped items would get me nowhere, and went on to leveling up my team.

After the Karma event, there was a break. This break let me level my team up enough to pull off 6* during the Rowanna event and get a Rowanna (which I've since maxed out and get a great deal of use with). If there was not a break, I would simply not have been able to get her at all. Period. That's not a "good thing for new players," being locked out of multiple events entirely because they can't get through the initial threshold.

I then went through that long period with the rest of you where there were no events at all. Yes, I agree, that was far too long. But that does not then mean that no break at all is a good thing; all it means is that very long breaks (especially with a whopping 1 SC as "compensation") are a Bad Thing.

Since then, I'm up to level 148, have a pretty strong core team, and have been slowly working on expanding other characters as needed. That's basically constant-charisma-expenditure, btw.

Kotono: I don't think anyone here is really believing that Nutaku is going to come to this thread and change their methodology. I, at least, am just having a discussion with people who think that back-to-back events are a good thing and asking that they look at it from a more inclusive point of view. Deriding everyone who disagrees as "casual" or "selfish" is pretty silly; there are very valid points and reasons to wanting small breaks.

I'm not going to drag this out any longer than it needs to be.

You guys DO realize that half the point of star events IS to take breaks? You get the stars, you're done, you go farm whatever you need. You don't slow the game down for everyone else because you want to do other things. You use the downtime DURING events to catch up on what you need.

Originally Posted by soranokira

not necessarily, there are people who're so unlucky they can't even get to -4 CR without using SCs, let alone getting the day to farm excess stuff. Wanting perfect event units is normal, there is always that degree of completionist considering this is sort of a 'collect every girl into your harem' type of game. A week break is not too much to ask for just to get some time for aff farming, especially considering even long time veterans (sort of) like Lafate is needing aff for his girls as well.

also, Eab, it's not only casuals. http://harem-battle.club/millennium-...uys-girls.html
Tenhou and Overload are examples of spenders who're supportive of a week break. Unless there's double drop rates like Charles mentioned (on page 2), and regular star events well spread out, that 1 week break is going to be helpful. Yes, the 6 week break was too much, but having no breaks is too tough as well. You should never be on one extreme end of the spectrum.

and fyi, if they're going back-to-back, right after star event, we're getting 2 unit farm events (yurina and charlotte) before awakening (assuming things go like in dmm.jp), so how do you expect we level up + aff solano so we can try using her? and hell, do you really think everyone is prepared for awakening?

You shouldn't need Solano for those events, considering DMM got Solano after those units, so I don't see the point you're making.

Besides, there's nothing stopping people from using the FREE SCs they get from every event to fill in the gaps of their char/stam consumption and getting their perfect unit.

Originally Posted by lolix

Casuals ? I was here in the first minute this game launched. I had to stop playing a couple of weeks (so i missed literally 4 characters : anya > got aria , but didn't finished the event , marribel and karma , and echidna > forgot about her. Got everything after and have a decently high team.) Untill new i also had a decent stock of spirits and aff items. Still after 3 events in a row , people tend to run out of provisions. Yes , i remember the long break as well , and yes i do understand that it's boring. Hell , i literally made a second account and raised it to lvl 130 in that break (well , since 2-3 weeks before odette event till now to be exact) , in addition to my main account. I'd hardly call myself a casual , but i can feel the big difference between a newer player and a older player firsthand....and even so , even my older account got 0 provisions left and needs restocking.

I don't see how you can't not call yourself casual and say you took a several-week break unless you somehow had no access to internet. Dragon Revival event was a star event too, the least time-consuming of the events, while Maribel was a relatively easy drop farming map.

I've been dying for plat fairies for a while, but that doesn't mean that I want a break from events because of it. You guys want to do something else besides events, use your SCs for recharges. Don't give me this bullshit that you want to slow down the game for everyone else because you can't catch up.

Originally Posted by Shadowfae

Kotono: I don't think anyone here is really believing that Nutaku is going to come to this thread and change their methodology. I, at least, am just having a discussion with people who think that back-to-back events are a good thing and asking that they look at it from a more inclusive point of view. Deriding everyone who disagrees as "casual" or "selfish" is pretty silly; there are very valid points and reasons to wanting small breaks.

And I'm saying that we HAD breaks. For NINE months. It goes without saying that a game that chooses to slow down for its newcomers at the expense of losing its long-time players is not ideal.

I haven't played for said time , becasue as i said some people actually have to work. It was a very bussy time in my life at the moment , that coincided with my dad getting sick. Dunno why i actually have to explain myself to you. The point is , we need breaks. There are people here that can't stay all day long in his mom's basement and play. That being said , i don't see how a 1 week break between 2-3 events will affect anyone. I meant seriously , would you die of boredom (i don't even get the ideea here. Most event have a couple maps that everyone grinds the fuck out of them untill , i'd rather do dailies then repeat it one more time. It's not like events are exciting more then 1 day anyway) if instead of a event , you would get a 1 week break ? Would you leave the game ? Chill the hell down a bit and grow up. Not everyone can keep playing at your pace , either because of time or money. And new players would get cut out entirely if nutaku kept doing that. But , who the hell cares about newbies anyway ? Am i right ?

Yes, you don't need solano, but at the same time you don't have time to level her up to actually TRY using her. Not to mention if things remain back-to-back as they are (I'm looking into the longer-term), you won't get to really aff up yurina, charlotte AND solano because awakenings next and you gotta try and get some awakened units up.
By using the SCs you're mentioning, you're effectively also saying that "Cutting short at -4 CR rather than -5 for example would give you a good day, maybe even two of farming." is not gonna happen, so just WHEN are you going to farm affection items? At that rate, even for older players, they're probably only going to manage to full aff like 2 girls every star event. so, are you saying that the others girls you maybe get from premium summons don't need affection considering that a star event comes like once every 3 or 4 events or so?

Look, we're not saying to have some crazy longass break for newbies to build team; we're just looking for a 1 week break after every event to be able to work up whatever additional members we got (either event or premium summon). Hell, even a week-long break every 2-3 events is better than none, although increased drop rate would really help to balance things out if that's the case. It is not likely anyone would spam premium summons forever if they realize they can't even get their spotlight units up and ready for events and new content. A week break is not going to kill the older players, honestly, and it gives them some time to restock on provisions.

point being: nobody wants extremes, a balanced approach is often the best approach. Yeah you can say back-to-back is fine for now since there's star rush for breaks, but don't forget that nutaku doesn't necessarily follow the event order from DMM. the next thing you know, they might come up with 6 back-to-back completion/unit farm events, and then you can enjoy getting event units without the chance to use them. which then makes you wonder the purpose of event getting event units at all. and then if there's no purpose in getting event units, the new content becomes relatively pointless and nothing more than just repeatedly grinding events for the sake of grinding them like in PPS.

Here comes the 'selfish' again. I'm still curious as to if anyone can come up with a valid reason that breaks are fairer to all players than back to back events giving everyone the choice of whether to play or not. Doubly so if you can come up with a reason that doesn't boil down to wanting your cake and eating it too.
I also wonder, Japs have had back to back for ages, if not forever, and yet somehow they haven't had catastrophic implosions of their player base, where is the idea that back to back events will kill off everyone coming from?

Originally Posted by soranokira

By using the SCs you're mentioning, you're effectively also saying that "Cutting short at -4 CR rather than -5 for example would give you a good day, maybe even two of farming." is not gonna happen, so just WHEN are you going to farm affection items?

You've got your posters mixed up, I said that. I don't precisely agree with eab in that regard, as while SCs are a completely valid option with you getting like 6-12 per event, you can easily manage most things by just cutting down your event spam.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

You've got your posters mixed up, I said that. I don't precisely agree with eab in that regard, as while SCs are a completely valid option with you getting like 6-12 per event, you can easily manage most things by just cutting down your event spam.

My bad, but back to the discussion, Jap ver =/= international ver, people will feel burn out if it goes on for a long period of time.
The main reason we're mentioning selfish here, is the fact that our points of discussion include considering the standpoint of both old players as well as new players, while thus far your arguments have pretty much only been for old players. and our point being, by stepping back a little, old players don't lose out too much, yet new players get a chance to build up. You need to strike a balance and not only think about old players. and like I mentioned, how is anyone (both old and new players) going to aff up new summons from spotlights and use them if events are back-to-back?

Personally, I chose to keep grinding the event for Sanosuke and Lauren, while stopping at 350. Other people could've just 3-starred the maps, stopped at 30-50 scrolls, and have at least a good week to farm whatever the hell they wanted.

yeah well fyi, you need to spend the entire 2 weeks to actually farm up 350 books for that event w/o using SCs. 'a good week to farm whatever the hell' = using SCs.

Originally Posted by soranokira

My bad, but back to the discussion, Jap ver =/= international ver, people will feel burn out if it goes on for a long period of time.
The main reason we're mentioning selfish here, is the fact that our points of discussion include considering the standpoint of both old players as well as new players, while thus far your arguments have pretty much only been for old players. and our point being, by stepping back a little, old players don't lose out too much, yet new players get a chance to build up. You need to strike a balance and not only think about old players. and like I mentioned, how is anyone (both old and new players) going to aff up new summons from spotlights and use them if events are back-to-back?.

Actually, many pro-break posts in this thread routinely ignore the 'experienced player' angle, claiming like you do that they lose nothing. Well, having nothing to do for a week is a pretty big loss to me. If you were truly arguing for balance, then constant events are the most balanced. Old players can always play events when they want to, new players can build up just like they would during a break and always have the option to attempt events, and those who need to restock can evaluate the event unit and decide what if any resources they want to spend on it. It's simply a matter of compromise, and while the Japanese version certainly isn't the English one, it's a shining example that back to back events work perfectly fine if people manage their time and compromise where necessary. The only thing relevant to the topic Japan has over Nutaku is revivals, but they're just a matter of time.

As for affection, I personally slip in runs of Skyfallen or Phalanx when I need to. I cut Lynn a couple days short because I needed some fodder for the current event and got some farming in there too.

Originally Posted by lolix

You're a company that wants to make money , yes ? Do you think players will use premium summons when u give them event after event ? And no , i don't mean they won't becasue they already have free units. They won't becaused they lack the time to raise and use said units. I could get a god damn deine or nanaly. If i don't have time to cc her and raise her aff , it's likely i'm still going to go with a spica i have lvled. By not giving players time to nejoy their spoils , you do 3 things : first you burn them out >>> like it happened in PPS <<< because continous events are not healthy. People need breaks. Second , you get less money out of them in the long term (in short term , they might buy more SCs , but if you keep doing this over and over , they will eventually give up. Finding a good balance between milking whales , and let them build up a bit their anticipation , will get you more money in the logn run). And 3rd : you cut out new players from the game entirely. The whole point of games like this is collecting. A lot of players would give up after they lost 3 events in a row because they were way too weak to participate. Droping behind the curve in games like this means the entry lvl for newnies becomes higher and higher , considering events get stronger and stronger , and unless they are ridiculously lucky in premium summons , they will need the event units. I mean , you can't expected a new player that never even experienced the full aigis experience to start spending money like crazy on premium summons. You let him grow a bit , participate in a event or 2 , and if he likes it , he is likely to start spending. When you treat newbies that bad , its obvious they won't start spending.


Is it fair ? Not sure why it wouldn't be. It's not like a wbreak would take anything away from a veteran player....unless all you want are bragging rights (which again , are rather pointless since there is literally no interaction between player accounts) for having a unit the other person doesn't has because he was a newbie when said event hit. Hell , with revival events , even that is a moot point , since even newer people will be able to get those. I literally see no advantage of having back to back events , other hten the entertainment of a very few number of people. On the other side , i can see a number of advantages of having breaks , and most of those include a bigger number of people then the first group

I actually addressed this in a post earlier on in the thread, but back to back events are much better for business than breaks. Breaks cause people to level comfortably, and that is what reduces reliance on SCs and Premium Summon, not events. An important part of the business module is keeping players under gentle pressure at all times, keeping that shiny Premium Summon button out of the corner of their eyes and their cursor hovering over buying more stamina, because if there's more events and pretty girls, it's more likely that players will consider spending to make their progress more comfortable. In addition, others will be more comfortable paying because of the steady stream of content building their confidence in the game and the developers. Nothing to do for a week other than the same tired old dailies does not inspire people to part with their money, the only place doing nothing gets you paid is Patreon and maybe Kickstarter if you can write a really good story about the sun telling you not to publish your book.

In terms of new players and spending, I don't really think the presence of events is going to do much harm there either. Those who are willing to part with their money will be more inclined to do so seeing the cute girls in events that they can't or just barely reach. If anything the longer one plays games, the less reasons they have to spend. After a while all you have left is 'I want to support Nutaku' or 'I want that waifu', neither of which are unique to veterans. From a monetary perspective, back to back events are great.

And again, I've addressed the benefits of having events above, and in earlier posts, but if you cannot see how allowing all players to enjoy Aigis rather than just a minor portion, then you should simply stop commenting. I genuinely mean it. If you are unable to realize that some people actually want to play the game and denying them that is a negative, then you are so far disconnected from other players that you need to stop and reconsider. Back to back events give everyone opportunity, but breaks only take away.

Originally Posted by Anonymous

Here comes the 'selfish' again. I'm still curious as to if anyone can come up with a valid reason that breaks are fairer to all players than back to back events giving everyone the choice of whether to play or not. Doubly so if you can come up with a reason that doesn't boil down to wanting your cake and eating it too.
I also wonder, Japs have had back to back for ages, if not forever, and yet somehow they haven't had catastrophic implosions of their player base, where is the idea that back to back events will kill off everyone coming from?



You've got your posters mixed up, I said that. I don't precisely agree with eab in that regard, as while SCs are a completely valid option with you getting like 6-12 per event, you can easily manage most things by just cutting down your event spam.

You're a company that wants to make money , yes ? Do you think players will use premium summons when u give them event after event ? And no , i don't mean they won't becasue they already have free units. They won't becaused they lack the time to raise and use said units. I could get a god damn deine or nanaly. If i don't have time to cc her and raise her aff , it's likely i'm still going to go with a spica i have lvled. By not giving players time to nejoy their spoils , you do 3 things : first you burn them out >>> like it happened in PPS <<< because continous events are not healthy. People need breaks. Second , you get less money out of them in the long term (in short term , they might buy more SCs , but if you keep doing this over and over , they will eventually give up. Finding a good balance between milking whales , and let them build up a bit their anticipation , will get you more money in the logn run). And 3rd : you cut out new players from the game entirely. The whole point of games like this is collecting. A lot of players would give up after they lost 3 events in a row because they were way too weak to participate. Droping behind the curve in games like this means the entry lvl for newnies becomes higher and higher , considering events get stronger and stronger , and unless they are ridiculously lucky in premium summons , they will need the event units. I mean , you can't expected a new player that never even experienced the full aigis experience to start spending money like crazy on premium summons. You let him grow a bit , participate in a event or 2 , and if he likes it , he is likely to start spending. When you treat newbies that bad , its obvious they won't start spending.


Is it fair ? Not sure why it wouldn't be. It's not like a wbreak would take anything away from a veteran player....unless all you want are bragging rights (which again , are rather pointless since there is literally no interaction between player accounts) for having a unit the other person doesn't has because he was a newbie when said event hit. Hell , with revival events , even that is a moot point , since even newer people will be able to get those. I literally see no advantage of having back to back events , other hten the entertainment of a very few number of people. On the other side , i can see a number of advantages of having breaks , and most of those include a bigger number of people then the first group

... Was this site always so... buggy? Taking forever to make a damn post.

Anyway.

Originally Posted by soranokira

yeah well fyi, you need to spend the entire 2 weeks to actually farm up 350 books for that event w/o using SCs. 'a good week to farm whatever the hell' = using SCs.

Did I say that everyone should've farmed 350 scrolls instead? No. I chose to farm that much because I decided that I needed Sanosukes and Laurens anyway. But Len isn't a necessary unit to max, or even get more than the bare minimum.

I simply chose to keep grinding the event because I decided that I should get more Sanosukes/Laurens while the opportunity was there. I could've easily chosen to do anything else instead. Anyone else could have.

There's your goddamn break right there.

Originally Posted by lolix

You're a company that wants to make money , yes ? Do you think players will use premium summons when u give them event after event ? And no , i don't mean they won't becasue they already have free units. They won't becaused they lack the time to raise and use said units. I could get a god damn deine or nanaly. If i don't have time to cc her and raise her aff , it's likely i'm still going to go with a spica i have lvled. By not giving players time to nejoy their spoils , you do 3 things : first you burn them out >>> like it happened in PPS <<< because continous events are not healthy. People need breaks. Second , you get less money out of them in the long term (in short term , they might buy more SCs , but if you keep doing this over and over , they will eventually give up. Finding a good balance between milking whales , and let them build up a bit their anticipation , will get you more money in the logn run). And 3rd : you cut out new players from the game entirely. The whole point of games like this is collecting. A lot of players would give up after they lost 3 events in a row because they were way too weak to participate. Droping behind the curve in games like this means the entry lvl for newnies becomes higher and higher , considering events get stronger and stronger , and unless they are ridiculously lucky in premium summons , they will need the event units. I mean , you can't expected a new player that never even experienced the full aigis experience to start spending money like crazy on premium summons. You let him grow a bit , participate in a event or 2 , and if he likes it , he is likely to start spending. When you treat newbies that bad , its obvious they won't start spending.


Is it fair ? Not sure why it wouldn't be. It's not like a wbreak would take anything away from a veteran player....unless all you want are bragging rights (which again , are rather pointless since there is literally no interaction between player accounts) for having a unit the other person doesn't has because he was a newbie when said event hit. Hell , with revival events , even that is a moot point , since even newer people will be able to get those. I literally see no advantage of having back to back events , other hten the entertainment of a very few number of people. On the other side , i can see a number of advantages of having breaks , and most of those include a bigger number of people then the first group

Oh man. You realize how silly your post sounds? How easy it is to turn your statement around?

Your post amounts to, "What's the point of getting premium/event units that you never have time to level?"

Here's a better question. How about, "What's the point of getting premium/event units if you have nothing to use them on?"

Because that's EXACTLY what happened prior to these back-to-back events. Some people are using Karma/Anya/Echidna/etc. for the very first time because there was nothing to use them on prior (protip, some people cleared Immortal Beast well before having these events).

But to answer your question, yes, actually. People will keep spending on the premium as each spotlight changes, as long as they have the desire to actually spend time developing them.

You mentioned earlier that you thought people would get tired of grinding event maps over and over, and that you'd rather farm dailies instead. Except no, people got tired of farming story/dailies AGES ago when the break periods got really bad. Likewise, people stopped spending on the shrine because there was no point if they were just going to farm Dragon Hunting and dailies they could've beaten with maxed out silvers and event units instead.

You can bitch all you want about not having enough time to level your team, but the downtime during events is there already. The downtime that comes from no events? That's harder to fill than you think. A lot of people jumped ship to DMM because there was actually shit to do whether or not they had time for it.

Like it or not, we're in a better place now than we were back then.

Side note, the PPS comparisons are laughable given how you don't spend anywhere near as much time or resources on one girl there than you do here.

And a game that never has any breaks at all is similarly not ideal. There is, however, a good middle ground-- short breaks, not long ones. Long ones are terrible for everyone, both newcomers and experienced players alike. Short breaks give newcomers a chance to build up, and give experienced ones some time to recuperate and build up their new cards / regather aff items / etc. With constant events, there is a constant push to keep ignoring what you have in favour of getting the new thing, because if you don't you are also falling behind (I mean, for myself, not having Karma in this current event was a pretty big deal!)

Admittedly, right now I am enjoying the "break" in this star event. Not all events are star events, though! Especially not the grindy ones, which we had two of in a row (one of the suggestions by our Anonymous friend was to stop at -4 CR on the grindy events-- I didn't even get my Monk to -4 CR until the very last night of the event, thanks to RNG).