Sir Eab for now just keep pushing on DM to Namely & Co.
Give them time to breath for a day and let's see what will happen next.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

I'm sorry, was I not supposed to take this as a personal attack? Because...



This looks like a personal attack.

A rich one too, considering how you didn't see how Nameless brushed off our concerns with emote spam, or how blobz went on a, how you say, "self-important" rant, saying "X-Overd died because it sucked and I didn't like it, FKG won't die the same way because I'm playing it."

But no, us naysayers are the bad guys here and Nutaku is the almighty paragon of reason.

Give me a fucking break.

You haven't refuted my logical conclusion either. You want to change the way TP is calculated? How, by making it calculate every girl in your inventory? That still wouldn't change the fact that plenty of girls have better stats than others (Dendrobium is your lady and savior and you will worship her as such), and focusing on the little ones would only hurt you in the long run, waifuism be damned.

I know why F2P games exist. Now tell me why games like FKG and KanColle do well, while games like Demon's Kitchen crash and burn? Not to mention how games like Osawari and SenPro are dead/dying on DMM. Hint: Part of it involves not alienating your F2P playerbase.

Okay, so you are the kind of person that takes a characterization of tone as a personal attack. I apologize; as I've said a few times now I wasn't attacking you as a person, but your argument and its tone.

As for changing the way TP is calculated, I admit that I don't have an answer to that right now; it was meant to be an example of how something could be changed to mitigate a perceived sharp imbalance because your argument was essentially "FKG will crash and burn with no one making any attempt to take corrective action if this TP ranking system remains". Does that refute your "logical conclusion"? I mean, seriously, are you the kind of person who thinks some things aren't worth the effort because eventually the Sun will collapse on itself and all life on Earth will be extinct?

Beyond the existence of F2P players as volunteer employees in a Skinner box to entice paying customers to continue paying in order to maintain a feeling of superiority over those volunteers, no game dev gives a damn about them. There is your difference; when it's done right, the paying customers don't feel that they have to pay, but they want to because they want the shortcut to superiority and the F2P players won't feel frustrated enough to play something else. But if the paying playerbase gets large enough to generate and sustain competition within itself, then the F2P players become superfluous.

In the particular case of FKG there is a lot to be said about the UI as well; typos aside, it's a fairly clean and responsive interface that doesn't feel like it's sucking the life out of you when you try to do anything (looking right your way Kamehime). I haven't played the ones you mentioned as examples of failed games, though I did briefly play X-Overd and found that UI to be clunky and off-putting enough that I didn't want to invest any time, let alone money, into it.

I think I've beaten this horse enough though; all I'm saying is that if you want the devs to take you seriously then you can't jump right into full hysteria over something you disagree with. You're right in that I wasn't witness to what happened in Discord, but judging from the way some people jumped down BB's virtual throat in this thread, I have a hard time believing the tone over there was rational and measured.

List of things corrected by mass hysteria on FKG: Asagao's censoring, Lavender's scene, stupid made-up names for flower knights

List of things corrected by "waiting and seeing" (read: allowing Nutaku to go ahead with their more questionable ideas) on FKG: ??????

On the whole, I'd say mass hysteria is a pretty good way for players to get things done. Rage on, folks.

Okay, serious question. Has Nutaku ever given me reason to believe that a newly-created system of theirs wouldn't devolve into a whalefest?

I was critical of their first batch of sales, like the infamous Bridal Cactace step-up gacha. I stopped when they made up for it with the Bridal Oncidium gacha and basically the entire month of November. Now, even if they host bad sales, I assume they bounce back. But even back when Bridal Cactace gacha happened, I was getting brushed off with "don't like it, don't buy it" apologists. As if there wasn't reason to believe that 5* variants of 6* girls would get paywalled the same way if no one had spoken up.

Now? There's no reason for me to believe that Nutaku will handle this well, and I'm not crazy for voicing my concerns. Frankly, I'm more concerned that people aren't scrutinizing Nutaku further after last month's batch of closures.

And no, you have it wrong. A paying playerbase that has no freemium playerbase to feed off of will eventually shut down on its own. Look at games like Angelic Saga, that was a circle of whales that barely kept it afloat. Then look at current popular gacha games like Fire Emblem Heroes, which, as much as the playerbase would have you believe otherwise, doesn't neglect its F2P players and gives them reasons to keep logging back in.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

List of things corrected by mass hysteria on FKG: Asagao's censoring, Lavender's scene, stupid made-up names for flower knights

List of things corrected by "waiting and seeing" (read: allowing Nutaku to go ahead with their more questionable ideas) on FKG: ??????

On the whole, I'd say mass hysteria is a pretty good way for players to get things done. Rage on, folks.

I could put on a pink tutu and do the Macarena in my living room. Not sure it would accomplish much, though.

Unless I've missed a memo, these forums are unofficial forums; they're not sponsored by Nutaku, nor likely browsed by them. They most topics here can do is raise awareness amongst the players who come here. So raising a stink here will not directly affect *anything*.

Indirectly, sure. Hell, before I read this topic, I didn't know about the impending ranking-based rewards. I'm glad I found out about that. But a bunch of pointless bickering and back-and-forth? No, none of the "rage" on here really does anything except act as troll bait for the other half of the argument. Good for pageviews, perhaps, but if you're looking to "get things done", it ranks only slightly higher than "pink tutu Macarena" (and only slightly prettier).

...Nothing I've seen yet is cause for alarm. Worry, sure, but not Chicken Little alarm. Again, we don't know what the rewards are going to be. Could they be something that breaks the game, like exclusives and power creep? Perhaps. They could also be something benign, like bonus gems and tickets. The global rankings themselves, and the concept of ranking-based rewards, are *not* intrinsically bad. And I say that as someone who will most definitely never win a single worthwhile reward off of them.

If we actually want to "do something" about this, then flailing about and screaming to remove the rankings, and predicting death and destruction, are pointless. It's all too easy for someone like Nameless to write off those complaints as "impossible to please" and "generic doomsaying" respectively, and go off and do whatever stupid plan he's cooking up. Rather, go to Discord when one of them is on, and instead stress the things we *don't* want - we don't want ranking-based rewards that would break the game for anyone who can't throw half their paycheck at the screen. That's it, that's all.

Anything else is pointless, and will accomplish absolutely nothing.

Meh... Guys you are missing the big picture here... we asked for TP Ranking back and we got it back.... this is a GOOD thing and has no bad points at all. Sure the new ranking has irrelevant data like how much XP you are through your level but w/e it looks better then the old one and is much clearer.

And hey if they add a global ranking then more power to them, it doesn't effect 90% of the player base anyway as we all know if you don't have 20 6*s you will not be near the top.

So the whales get a new fancy dick ruler and the game gets more cash from them fighting with each other meaning the game will stay open longer and we who do not whale will get to play for longer how is that a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Zandel

Meh... Guys you are missing the big picture here... we asked for TP Ranking back and we got it back.... this is a GOOD thing and has no bad points at all. Sure the new ranking has irrelevant data like how much XP you are through your level but w/e it looks better then the old one and is much clearer.

And hey if they add a global ranking then more power to them, it doesn't effect 90% of the player base anyway as we all know if you don't have 20 6*s you will not be near the top.

So the whales get a new fancy dick ruler and the game gets more cash from them fighting with each other meaning the game will stay open longer and we who do not whale will get to play for longer how is that a bad thing?

As stated, the same thing happened to X-Overd. The main thing to take from that is stop doing stuff that will piss the devs off. Nutaku went astray and that was the reason for devs to pull X-Overd out, the same thing can happen here too. It's to err on the side of caution.

Putting competition where there is no need for it is not more power to them, it's a way to cash grab more in the event that this game too is dropped.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

Okay, serious question. Has Nutaku ever given me reason to believe that a newly-created system of theirs wouldn't devolve into a whalefest?

I was critical of their first batch of sales, like the infamous Bridal Cactace step-up gacha. I stopped when they made up for it with the Bridal Oncidium gacha and basically the entire month of November. Now, even if they host bad sales, I assume they bounce back. But even back when Bridal Cactace gacha happened, I was getting brushed off with "don't like it, don't buy it" apologists. As if there wasn't reason to believe that 5* variants of 6* girls would get paywalled the same way if no one had spoken up.

Now? There's no reason for me to believe that Nutaku will handle this well, and I'm not crazy for voicing my concerns. Frankly, I'm more concerned that people aren't scrutinizing Nutaku further after last month's batch of closures.

And no, you have it wrong. A paying playerbase that has no freemium playerbase to feed off of will eventually shut down on its own. Look at games like Angelic Saga, that was a circle of whales that barely kept it afloat. Then look at current popular gacha games like Fire Emblem Heroes, which, as much as the playerbase would have you believe otherwise, doesn't neglect its F2P players and gives them reasons to keep logging back in.

I agree with at least some of your main points.
TP is a) only a grossly useful measure of actual team effectiveness, b) maximizing TP in ranking lists is probably counterproductive to putting together good teams, and c) I don't take seriously any 'competition' therein.
I personally didn't miss the old ally ranking since I don't really care, and if I ever did wonder, I am capable of adding 4 numbers together and seeing where it lists within the allies list sorted by TP.
That being said if the awards are along the lines of coins/manyus/ampies/seeds? Sure some extras would be nice but it won't make me do anything any different except maybe push ahead those last few levels on my rainbows. Exclusive girls or something similar? It'd be a very depressing move and I'd be less inclined to spend time.

At the same time Eab, for someone who didn't see the Discord argument, you're coming off with a very aggressive and off-putting tone. I mean I only have a vague idea of what KanColle is and sure that means you can't just point at it and say 'this should be like that' but it doesn't mean that discussion is pointless.

And I agree that once the game becomes sufficiently F2P unfriendly its chances become dim. I mean even whales tend to slow down on spending after a while, when they have most/all of what they want. To keep income steady you need to make sure that other people get personally invested into the game and then maybe have the chance to sell them something. If it's up front pay then that's not as attractive.

If you wanted real competition, you could come up with things that are both more interesting and less of a pure 'whale or gtfo' than a TP competition though. Just a thought or two off the top of my head, measured damage against a raid boss, limited turn count, 5 tries per player, and maybe sort players into classes based on TP or something else so that you're measuring effectiveness. Randomize damage types from week to week and it becomes at least a bit of a challenge. Maps with again limited number of tries, awards based on max number of chests gathered in a run, few RNG nodes but plenty of switch nodes and alternate paths. All this would take work though so it's just a pipe dream. (And BTW PvP in SenPro doesn't really favor whales. It favors no-lifers coordinating with other no-lifers, but whaling of only limited use).

We'll see what the rewards are. I'll probably mostly ignore competition though. I mean how do you really 'compete' anyways, other than stacking up more rainbows and more ampies, which is really not what I want to be doing.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If we actually want to "do something" about this, then flailing about and screaming to remove the rankings, and predicting death and destruction, are pointless. It's all too easy for someone like Nameless to write off those complaints as "impossible to please" and "generic doomsaying" respectively, and go off and do whatever stupid plan he's cooking up. Rather, go to Discord when one of them is on, and instead stress the things we *don't* want - we don't want ranking-based rewards that would break the game for anyone who can't throw half their paycheck at the screen. That's it, that's all.

Anything else is pointless, and will accomplish absolutely nothing.

Already a step ahead of you. I've PM'd this thread to them.

Originally Posted by kringley

At the same time Eab, for someone who didn't see the Discord argument, you're coming off with a very aggressive and off-putting tone. I mean I only have a vague idea of what KanColle is and sure that means you can't just point at it and say 'this should be like that' but it doesn't mean that discussion is pointless.

So are we just going to ignore posts like this? Don't pretend this aggressiveness is one-sided.

Originally Posted by Bloodsport Bloom

Good b8 m8.

I'm saying FKG community is like a prissy wife. This thread is a testament to that.
I've said my two cents worth.

For the record, I would have left after five minutes. Nameless doesn't owe us jack shit, and I'm surprised he gave us that much time considering the reaction he was given to giving us back a feature everyone spent a month begging for.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

So are we just going to ignore posts like this? Don't pretend this aggressiveness is one-sided.

Who's pretending? There wasn't even any real point besides posturing there (In Bloodsport Bloom's post).
At the same time, you've got Mindrunner for whom about every other post amounts to "Nameless kicked my dog and took my lunch money" which is also not useful.
I was just saying that because past a point, aggressive arguing can push people away from positions they might otherwise support.
And although I'm in a kind of wait and see when it comes to this ranking list, I certainly don't think it really adds anything useful to the game.
As long as it doesn't stop me from running normal events, collecting and upgrading girls, etc. though, it won't really take anything away from me either.