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  1. PeroPero
  2. PeroPero Seduction Integration

  1. #21
    Unregistered Guest
    2 computer with 6 browers on each then you locked into all 12 accounts at same time - I am not going to test this but sound easy - If some people are willing to spend 2000$ to win an event they might be willing it install 6 browers too...

    If players could only attack each other player once per day problem solved. Cant be too hard to code it so server remember who attacked who.


  2. #22

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    2 computer with 6 browers on each then you locked into all 12 accounts at same time - I am not going to test this but sound easy - If some people are willing to spend 2000$ to win an event they might be willing it install 6 browers too...

    If players could only attack each other player once per day problem solved. Cant be too hard to code it so server remember who attacked who.
    The hard part isn't in having 12 accounts open at the same time. I don't even need 2 computers for those.
    The problem is in effectively attacking yourself with those 12 accounts at the same time.

    You haven't even tried finding yourself from an alt account, have you?
    You have to keep clicking the update button (which, by the way, actually takes a second or two to refresh the page) until one of the six names is your main account. That's sifting through more than 200 players until you find the exact match.
    Sometimes, you get it in the first update or two. Sometimes it takes over 30 updates.
    What is fact, is that you can't do it more than a few times every 5 minutes.

    Let's say you have good luck, and you always manage to do all three attacks in 3 minutes. That means you have to do that 12 times in 10 minutes (time it takes to regen the 2 focus you last used). That's 36 minutes there.

    It doesn't matter how many alt accounts you open at the same time, you only have two hands (up to two mice in use) and one brain (look and process one screen at the time).
    Even if you were capable of multitasking this for more than one screen at a time, you're still limited by your two hands.
    And that doesn't even take into account time spent just switching between accounts (even if it's only a couple seconds for ALT+TAB to render another browser in the screen).

    Just throwing puddings to the alt account is easier and faster.
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  3. #23
    I'd say the best fix specifically to this event, is to limit or completely eliminate refreshing opponents. The simplest implementation that pops into my head for them to do this is to just have the server cache the results a player gets for each possible query type, and clear them when the player attacks. There aren't enough players that the size of the cache will be much of a problem (and of course the second i post, i think of something simpler, and requires you to cache even less information). All being said, they probably won't implement something like that, but it would close pretty much all of the cheap and easy loopholes with this particular event.

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by xero View Post
    I'd say the best fix specifically to this event, is to limit or completely eliminate refreshing opponents. The simplest implementation that pops into my head for them to do this is to just have the server cache the results a player gets for each possible query type, and clear them when the player attacks. There aren't enough players that the size of the cache will be much of a problem (and of course the second i post, i think of something simpler, and requires you to cache even less information). All being said, they probably won't implement something like that, but it would close pretty much all of the cheap and easy loopholes with this particular event.
    You're making a basic mistake here, thinking there's only one server involved. Nutaku manages the server load with services from Amazon AWS, so there's actually dozens of virtual servers being spun up and down all the time (Meh, all the time being a relative term for those that know how virtual servers are instanced and spun)
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  5. #25
    I'm not making a mistake per say, i'm just not taking into account their environment, even if they are in AWS and dynamically scaling and all that jazz, the simplest solution is still the same. There's just some additional wrinkles due to things like logical physical hardware mappings, replication, and other wonderful software "wacky-ry" that will complicate things a bit.

    The cache can be distributed. Sharding it on say... user hash would do the trick, the hash mapping to a virtual node so that physical nodes can be expanded collapsed, and replaced underneath through some sort of magical re-balance/re-shard operation. They probably don't need to dynamically scale for this deployment. I wouldn't be surprised if its still setup to do so, since its pretty common for web based games, having a couple under their belt already they probably design to make it possible to scale as a matter of standard procedure at this point... (its a good feature to have available incase your player base suddenly explodes, or dwindles... which of course it does naturally over the course of each and every day)

    Basically I was assuming they have storage/cache that is reliable and available for each player, and i'd say that's pretty reasonable. considering you have an inventory, stamina and life counters, cards, and many other things stored/cached that are specific to you, just tack the results from the query on to the end of that. =)
    Last edited by xero; 07-25-2015 at 09:42 AM.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by xero View Post
    I'm not making a mistake per say, i'm just not taking into account their environment, even if they are in AWS and dynamically scaling and all that jazz, the simplest solution is still the same. There's just some additional wrinkles due to things like logical physical hardware mappings, replication, and other wonderful software "wacky-ry" that will complicate things a bit.

    The cache can be distributed. Sharding it on say... user hash would do the trick, the hash mapping to a virtual node so that the physical node underneath can be replaced through some sort of magical re-balance/re-shard operation. They probably don't need to dynamically scale for this deployment. I wouldn't be surprised if its still setup to do so, since its pretty common for web based games, having a couple under their belt already they probably design to make it possible to scale as a matter of standard procedure at this point... (its a good feature to have available incase your player base suddenly explodes, or dwindles... which of course it does naturally over the course of each and every day)

    Basically I was assuming they have storage/cache that is reliable and available for each player, and i'd say that's pretty reasonable. considering you have an inventory, stamina and life counters, cards, and many other things stored/cached that are specific to you, just tack the results from the query on to the end of that. =)
    The problem is that doing things in web services like this is best geared by moving to as much of a REST architecture, where you don't cache this kind of things, as possible.
    Caching, and sharing data between distributed parts of a server, are such complex things that there are whole companies and profesional groups just dedicated to that, and they can't fix it good enough yet.
    Believe me, caching trivial transactional data in a distributed web server is as hellish hard as you can go.
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  7. #27
    Unregistered Guest
    Game can remember who I have thrown a pie at so why cant it remember who I have attacked ??

  8. #28
    That was the purpose of the user hash, which would direct all information regarding a single user through the same set of virtual nodes reliably, meaning that cache although distributed, for the purposes of a single player is not, meaning you avoid all of the nastiness regarding sharing the cache between nodes. But yes, having a cache at all is not necessary, and adds A LOT of complexity for arguably negligible gain. Sorry I'm a bit of a performance junky when it comes to software development. And it was a mistake to use the words distributed, cache, and simple in the same post as one another... or even same thread for that matter =0. Crap! I just did it again, disregard that.
    Last edited by xero; 07-25-2015 at 10:09 AM.

  9. #29
    Unregistered Guest
    There much fewer Sexy rank 1 players then Moe ranks 1 players (Around 150 players rank 1 sexy players) to get 60 kills per hour you need to find youself in 60 sek and press attack. On avarage you need 12 refresh to find youself - is 12 refresh in 60 sek is that imposible?? There are 3-5 times more Moe players so it would be hard to do for a moe player.

    All the top player are sexy rank 1 players.

    I tested by making same deck as one of the top players - I got 1 defence win in 30 min he had 30 defence wins in same 30 min ????? How can this be posible ?????

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    Game can remember who I have thrown a pie at so why cant it remember who I have attacked ??
    Because remembering something is not caching.
    Caching is keeping that data it remembers floating on memory (or any fast-access space) so you don't have to spend the resources it takes to go fetch that data from the database it remembers it in

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by YoshiEnVerde View Post
    Because remembering something is not caching.
    Caching is keeping that data it remembers floating on memory (or any fast-access space) so you don't have to spend the resources it takes to go fetch that data from the database it remembers it in
    Virtual servers work in a simple way:
    You keep your data in one server (or set of servers), and your logic in another server (or set of virtual servers like in this case).
    That's what allows a hundred virtual servers to work at the same time: They all share the same data space.

    Caching is used to avoid the need of accesing that shared data space as much as posible (as using local data will always be faster than asking for data from the data space).
    As such, distributed caching becomes a big nightmare.

    The virtual servers are pretty much a huge set of small pieces of code, with no state being saved between request and request.
    The virtual servers do one simple thing: Recieve a Request -> Process It -> Ask Data Space for Needed Data -> Return Response to App.
    They don't remember who you pied, unless they ask the data space for that info.
    Making an algorithm that filters certain players based on time since you attacked them means multiplying the complexity (and cost) of the search service by at least 3 or 4 times, and it's quite slow already (anything that takes lapses in the range of seconds is considered glacial in web services)

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by Unregistered View Post
    There much fewer Sexy rank 1 players then Moe ranks 1 players (Around 150 players rank 1 sexy players) to get 60 kills per hour you need to find youself in 60 sek and press attack. On avarage you need 12 refresh to find youself - is 12 refresh in 60 sek is that imposible?? There are 3-5 times more Moe players so it would be hard to do for a moe player.

    All the top player are sexy rank 1 players.

    I tested by making same deck as one of the top players - I got 1 defence win in 30 min he had 30 defence wins in same 30 min ????? How can this be posible ?????
    It's not the 12 refresh per minute that is a problem, it's refreshing and checking your name isn't there, which takes cognitive action beyond the reactive action of clicking over and over.
    Also, we're not talking about 60 kills per hour. We're talking about 100 to 200 kills per hour (top5 players rake in def counts of 300 to 400 in 2 to 3 hs). That's 20 to 30 seconds per attack, meaning 12 refreshes in 2 that time, or 1.5 to 2.5 seconds to refresh and check the names.

    The request for names alone takes more than 1.5 seconds, and I've lost count of how many times I realized the opponent I was looking for was one of the six displayed after I had clicked refresh.
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