I usually farm 12-5 until I trigger a raid boss, then either keep farming it if I have time or switch to 12-3 if I just want to quickly burn stamina. I'm running out of uses for the level 5 manyus and am have some gold issues (feeding ampies is draining my gold badly) so I don't usually run the beginner bonus stage anymore.

Not sure on how people feel between 12-5 vs 12-3, but I like the good exp ratio on 12-5 which helps make up for the 80 stam gardens. Also I think 12-5 gives more gold/seeds per stamina, the only thing I'm giving up is it's a bit harder to get all the chests.

Well, 12-5 is the best exp ratio and supposedly gives good seed/coin comparable to 12-3 so it is better indeed. This is provided you can actually complete it though :P

12-5 just feels a lot more inconsistent since the rewards can vary so much based on RNG for the second half of the map, and I often miss 1 or 2 chests. So if you care more about ampies/triggering gardens 12-3 might be better.

->Open Spoiler<-

Now that I'm looking at the map again, I think I'd get the most gold/seeds if I just stacked everyone on the top left node. I might try that to see if it's better.

EDIT: Seems worth it if you can handle having less control over where your squads go and the extra moving pest damage you take by starting further back.

->Open Spoiler<-

Stacked all squads in the upper left. One squad died a little early (before hitting the final boss), which lowered the gains a bit.

It helps if your weaker squads are slower so they never fight and can just pick up goodies after your strong squads clear the way (barring bad RNG sending them to the frontlines).

I did some testing:


10x stage 12-3, bonus stage(80 stamina) and boss.

Finishing Stage 12-3 have around 40% chance of finding a L58 boss and 40% chance of finding a bonus stage
So 10x 12-3 give 4x bosses and 4x Bonus stage (80 stamina)

Total stamina cost 10 * 35 + 4 * 80 = 670 Stamina
Coins 10 * 3171 + 4* 8032 = 63838 Coins
Seed 10 * 564 + 4 * 690 = 8400 Steed
Exp 10 * 473 + 4* 160 = 5370 Exp
** girls 10 * 4.8 = 48 ** Girls (250 coins each)
* gift 10 * 0.2 = 2 * gift
*-upgrade 4 * 0 = 0.00 * upgrade (1080 girl exp each)
**-upgrade 4 * 2.66 = 10.67 ** upgrade (2700 girl exp each)
***-upgrade 4 * 0.66 = 2.67 *** upgrate (7200 girl exp each)
**-Item seed 4 * 72 = 288 ** Item seed

The 8400 seeds gives:
*-upgrade 84 * 2.4% = 2.0 * upgrade (1080 girl exp each)
**-girls 84 * 92% = 77.3 ** girls (250 coins each)
***-girls 84 * 5.3% = 4.5 *** girls ( 270 girl exp each)
****-girls 84 * 0.3% = 0.3 **** girls (360 girl exp each)

I sell all *2 girl for 250 coins, upgrade cost 4000 coins per girl used.

Net for 10x 12-3, bonus stage (80 stamina) and boss.
Stamina cost: 670
Coins: 14946
Girl exp: 51470
Exp 5370
*-Item seed: 0
**-Item seed: 288

12-3 per stamina point used:
Coins: 22.31
Girl exp: 76.82
Exp: 8.01
*-Item seed: 0
**-Item seed: 0.43

Same analysis for 12-1 gives:

12-1 per stamina point used:
Coins: 25.44
Girl exp: 78.99
Exp: 7.74
*-Item seed: 0
**-Item seed: 0.41

12-1 gives +2.8% more girl exp but 3.4% less exp and 4.1% less seeds than 12-3.
I cant say which is better 12-1 or 12-3 they as very much alike.

************************************************** ************************************************** ****************

2-1 per stamina point used:
Coins: -53.64
Girl Exp: 110.57
Exp: 11.92
*-Item seed: 0.83
**-Item seed: 0.00

2-1 gives 50% more exp and 50% more girl exp than 12-1 or 12-3.
It gives a bit fewer coins.
Stage 2-1 gives *-item seeds while 12-1 give **-item seeds.
If item seeds are used for upgrading 2-1 are better because 2-1 give twice as many seeds.

Conclusion: 2-1 are far better (50% better) than 12-1 and 12-3 per stamina point spend.
Main reason is: The 80-stamina-bonus-stage only give 3 time more girl exp than 12-stamina-bonus-stage but cost 6 times more stamina.

Only advantage of stages 12-1 and 12-3 are that they give 3 times more ****-girls per stamina spend than 2-1.

you forgot gold cost.

I mathed that out 2 days ago just theoretically and arrived at a similar conclusion. However, i'm still running 12-3 because it gives me at least one ampy per day and running 2-1 over and over gets incredibly tedious compared to just doing a few 12-3 + bonus stages and then be done for a fair while.

Also, coins spent will be a lot more with 2-1 because you only get lvl 5 and 20 manyus which will ultimately cost you a ton later on. All in all, 12-3 is just that much easier for those with a lot of high level characters in my opinion. Sure, if you can manage the gold for it, together with evolutions and stuff, by all means continue with 2-1.

I still agree that 2-1 is a LOT better for lower levels though, no doubts about that. But once your characters are in their evolved 40's you might want to look into 12-3 instead and get some ampys while at it.

I calculate with an upgrade cost of 4000 coins per unit.
*-upgrade girls give 1080 girl exp
**-upgrade girls give 2700 girl exp
***-upgrade girls give 7200 girl exp

80 stamina bonus stage on average give
0.66 ***-upgrade girl (7200 girl exp each)
2.66 **-upgrade girl (2700 girl exp each)
Total 12000 girl exp.
Girl exp per stamina 12000/80 = 150.
Exp 134
Exp per stamina 143/12 = 11.92

12 stamina bonus stage on average give
1.5 **-upgrade girl (2700 girl exp each)
0.5 **-upgrade girl (1080 girl exp each)
Total 4590 girl exp.
Girl exp per stamina 4590 / 12 = 382.5
Exp 160
Exp per stamina 160/80 = 2

In my calculation I also use all normal seed
2,4% give *-upgrade (1080 girl exp and upgrade cost 4000 coins)
92,0% **-girl (sell for 250 coins)
5,3% give ***-girl (270 girl exp and upgrade cost 4000 coins)
0,3% give ****-girl (360 girl exp and upgrade cost 4000 coins)
Based on this I get that 1 normal seed give -0.9 coin and 0.4131 girl exp.

************************************************** ***************************

Stamina for 10x 2-1 + 4x bonus stage 12
10x 15 + 4x 80 = 670 stamina.

My calculation of coins net from 10x 12-3 and 4x bonus stager (80 stamina)
10x 3171 =31710 coins (10 time stage 12-3)
4x 8032 = 32128 coins (4 time bonus stage)
48x 250 = 12000 coins (selling 48 **-girls from 12-3)
8400 *-0.9 = -7500 coins (8400 seeds = 10x 564 + 4x 690 seeds) upgrade cost minus sell for the **-girls.
-4x 3.33333 * 4000 = -53333 coins (upgrade cost of the 4x 2.66666 **-upgrade + 4x 0.666666 ***-upgrade from bonus stage.
Total 14946 coins. (Same result as shown at before)

My calculation of girl exp (stage 12-3 incl bonus stage)
Girl exp 8400 (seed) * 0.4131 + 4x 12000 = 51470 girl exp (Same result as shown at before)

Girl exp per stamina 51470/ 670 = 76.8

************************************************** *******************************

Stamina for 10x 2-1 + 4x bonus stage 12
10x 12 + 4x 12 = 168 stamina.

My calculation of coins net from 10x 2-1 and 4x bonus stager (12 stamina)
10x 880 =+8800 coins (10 time stage 2-1)
4x 1500 = +6000 coins (4 time bonus stage 12)
28x 250 = +12000 coins (selling 28 **-girls from 2-1)
800 *-0.9 = -720 coins (8400 seeds = 10x 564 + 4x 690 seeds) upgrade cost minus sell for the **-girls.
-4x 2 * 4000 = -32000 coins (upgrade cost of the 4x 1.5 **-upgrade + 4x 0.5 *-upgrade from bonus stage).
Total -16480 coins. (Same result as shown at before)

My calculation of girl exp (stage 12-3 incl bonus stage)
Girl exp 800 (seed) * 0.4131 + 4x 4590 = 18690 girl exp (Same result as shown at before)

Girl exp per stamina 18690/ 168 = 111.25

If I sell ***- girls instead of using them for upgrade coin earned and used will balance for stage 2-1 bonus stage.
Almost all my ***-girls have been fully unlocked already.

Originally Posted by Opalia24

I calculate with an upgrade cost of 4000 coins per unit.

This right here is a big problem with your calculations. The coin cost per fodder used is the same as the knight's level times 100. This means that once you hit level 40, then sure your upgrade cost will be at 4000 coins per fodder, but once you're above that it will be a lot more. The exp required is a LOT more too. It took me about 6-7 level 100 fodders to get a girl from 50 to 60 and at that point the cost is 5k coins per fodder.

Imagine trying to do that with level 5 and level 20 fodders, which do not even grant half of what level 100 fodders give. Heck, imagine trying to level a 5* knight to 70 with just level 20 fodders. You'll get about 5 levels at most each time you feed a full 10 of them above 50 and each time is going to cost you 50k+ coins. Meanwhile 10x level 100 fodders will cost about 50k and get you way higher.

Sure, if you only have bronzies lowbie fodders might still be a thing, but once you start getting a fair deal of gold units (either through gacha or events) the costs will pile up somewhat insanely much.

I use 4000 coins at upgrade cost which is girl level 58.
So for girls level 58 stage 2-1 is 50% better than 12-3.
For all girls under level 58 stage 2-1 is more then 50% better.
For girls level 70 stage 2-1 might just be 30% better 12-3.
I don't have any girls passed level 70 so I really don't know about those.
I am free player so I don't think I really have to worry about getting girls to level higher the 70 anytime soon.

Originally Posted by Opalia24

I use 4000 coins at upgrade cost which is girl level 58.

Since when?...

->Open Spoiler<-

It's already higher than 4k at level 46 and still corresponds to what i said about your girl's level times 100.

Originally Posted by Opalia24

I am free player so I don't think I really have to worry about getting girls to level higher the 70 anytime soon.

Each event gives a 5* unit and they all go to level 70 when evolved.

Edit:
I went and checked, and it actually is cheaper for unevolved girls with my unevolved 42 girl being at 3k per fodder. However as you can see it is more expensive when evolved. So i can agree with, and have said so earlier in the thread, that 2-1 is much better before evolving at hitting level 40ish, but after that it is going to be incredibly expensive AND exp using.

Edit2:
And then people wonder what the lovely part of 12-3 is...
http://i.imgur.com/agdm4dN.png
http://i.imgur.com/jZqO1UH.png