Confirmation here that Geranium and Cyrtanthus multiply their modifier. (Make sure both girls are showered with presents first, since it's based on affection).

Screenie:

Originally Posted by Drip

Confirmation here that Geranium and Cyrtanthus multiply their modifier. (Make sure both girls are showered with presents first, since it's based on affection).

Screenie:

Thank you Drip. Looks like i have to make such a Team...

Hmm i need Fritillaria and some Revival Events

Originally Posted by Wutan

Thank you Drip. Looks like i have to make such a Team...

Hmm i need Fritillaria and some Revival Events

Just beware, that squad is SLOW: 453 speed.

One option is to switch out Tachibana for Moonvine (Moonvines event is right before Tachibana's) to get a speed of 478 instead. Which is rather slow when I look at my other squads, but it's an improvement at least. Tachibana is slightly more powerful than Moonvine though, but as said, she is slower, and one of her passives only works against raidbosses.
Another option would be switching Tachibana out for a unit with a decent buff to squadspeed, like Orchid or Alpinia, or even Edelweiss (only +50 speed, but she heals the squad on pestnodes)
Or the final option: not including Fritillaria, but having both Tachibana and Moonvine in the squad. All those special attacks triggering causes a lot of damage anyway.

Originally Posted by Drip

Just beware, that squad is SLOW: 453 speed.

One option is to switch out Tachibana for Moonvine (Moonvines event is right before Tachibana's) to get a speed of 478 instead. Which is rather slow when I look at my other squads, but it's an improvement at least. Tachibana is slightly more powerful than Moonvine though, but as said, she is slower, and one of her passives only works against raidbosses.
Another option would be switching Tachibana out for a unit with a decent buff to squadspeed, like Orchid or Alpinia, or even Edelweiss (only +50 speed, but she heals the squad on pestnodes)
Or the final option: not including Fritillaria, but having both Tachibana and Moonvine in the squad. All those special attacks triggering causes a lot of damage anyway.

I think i will make the Team like this:

1. Maple (She also has the Skill Activation+ based on Affection and i have the Nutaku Gold for her)
2. Tachibana
3. Moonvine
4. Cyrtanthus ( I already have got her)
5. Either Alpinia or Orchid for Speed

Originally Posted by Zandel

I Can confirm that turn 3 skills add together fully so 1.2 + 1.2 = 2.4x

I Can confirm that base skill ups add by multiplying 1.2 + 1.2 = 1.44x
Based on that i'd say 3 1.2x girls would be 1.73x (1.728 rounded up).

I can also say that having two 1.2 all the time girls and 2 1.2 at turn 3 girls in the same squad = close to 75% activation of skills for turns 1-2 and around 95% for turn 3.
Had a team setup like that for around 50 runs and that was the most common pattern.

Originally Posted by Drip

Confirmation here that Geranium and Cyrtanthus multiply their modifier. (Make sure both girls are showered with presents first, since it's based on affection).

Screenie:

->Open Spoiler<-

I've just obtained evidence that says otherwise.



If it was multiplying, then the skill rates we should have seen would have been either 1.72 or 1.73 to round up the value. Instead, it appears that our individual 20% modifiers are adding on top of each other to get a final skill modifer of 1.6, or +60%.

Further and many more tests will have to be done to see how this will actually stack with Moonvine and Tachibana's own modifier skills. If it stacks additively (1.6 + 2.4) like Moonvine and Tachibana's, then a 25% skill rate will be enough to land 100% of the time. If it's multiplicative (1.6 * 2.4), then 26% would be enough. However, if it stacks additively like Justicia/Cyrtanthus/Geranium (0.6 + 2.4), then 33% will be needed for a 100% activation on turn 3.

As such, I shall be taking chunks of 100~200k damage out of your raid bosses in order to test this theory


Edit: Large additive (1.6 + 2.4) was busted ages ago, ever since Geranium + Moonvine/Tachibana combo was possible, forget that. Small additive (0.6 +2.4) and multiplicative (1.6 * 2.4) are what's left to test.

- - - Updated - - -

After 14 Raid Battles and 56 skill activations, I can say with at minimum, 98% certainty (it's confirmed, no way it's not after that) that the skill modifiers of Cyrtanthus/Geranium/Justicia multiply on top of additive bonus of Moonvine/Tachibana's x2.4 modifier.

30%(x1.4 * x2.4) was the used setup here. If the modifiers multiplied on top of each other, then all units with a 30% activation rate would have a guaranteed 100% rate on the third turn. If it followed the low, additive rule of stacking Cyrtanthus, Geranium and Justicia on top of each other and consequently, other skill modifiers, the 3rd turn probability would have been 84% [30%(x0.4 + x2.4 =2.8)].

Taking this established fact into account, it's safe to assume and hypothesis that Skill Modifiers of the same type will stack in an additive fashion with each other and multiply with modifiers of differing types. However, it'd still be very nice if we can finally put this matter to rest by testing how Cymbidium and Lindley's stack with each other, along with the other types.

They have either changed this or I get something different because my two 1.2x girls Geranium and Cyrtanthus give me a 1.44x skill proc.... or at least they did till this week. Have not been paying attention to a possible change but will now.

Well, after doing so deep dive test runs on using accessories, I did find some interesting trivia that relates to Defense teams, so I figured I'd share an idea or two on how to best set up a Defense-Ability unit.

From what I can tell, you only need a Defense stat equal to 25% of a pest's Attack power in order to reduce incoming damage by 50%. On the other end of the spectrum, you need a bit more than double the pest's Attack power in your Defense in order to completely negate all damage.

So my tip on using Defense Abilities is this: either include only a bare minimum in a squad to get the best efficiency out of the Defense mechanisms, or go all in and attempt to raise your Squad's Defense to make them a walking Fortress.

Now, if anybody here knows the actual equations that make Defense in this game tick, PLEASE tell. It's been a nasty headache for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and since the value of Defense is entirely based on the Pests' Attack, I'm gonna repost these numbers from the other thread.

->Open Spoiler<-

1. Among our current 45 5*s, a Lv70 (Max Affection) Knight's average Defense is 2203
2. Among our current 45 5*s, a Lv70 (Max Affection) Knight's average HP is 12,376
3. Stage 12-5's Pests have an average Attack of 2500
4. Stage 13-5's Pests have an average Attack of 5000
5. Stage E14, ?-8's Pests have an average Attack of 8000

Originally Posted by Corintis

Well, after doing so deep dive test runs on using accessories, I did find some interesting trivia that relates to Defense teams, so I figured I'd share an idea or two on how to best set up a Defense-Ability unit.

From what I can tell, you only need a Defense stat equal to 25% of a pest's Attack power in order to reduce incoming damage by 50%. On the other end of the spectrum, you need a bit more than double the pest's Attack power in your Defense in order to completely negate all damage.

So my tip on using Defense Abilities is this: either include only a bare minimum in a squad to get the best efficiency out of the Defense mechanisms, or go all in and attempt to raise your Squad's Defense to make them a walking Fortress.

Now, if anybody here knows the actual equations that make Defense in this game tick, PLEASE tell. It's been a nasty headache for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and since the value of Defense is entirely based on the Pests' Attack, I'm gonna repost these numbers from the other thread.

->Open Spoiler<-

1. Among our current 45 5*s, a Lv70 (Max Affection) Knight's average Defense is 2203
2. Among our current 45 5*s, a Lv70 (Max Affection) Knight's average HP is 12,376
3. Stage 12-5's Pests have an average Attack of 2500
4. Stage 13-5's Pests have an average Attack of 5000
5. Stage E14, ?-8's Pests have an average Attack of 8000

Very interesting.

I think a good idea would be to aim for the 50% Damage Reduction and fill the rest of the Squad with Units like Anemone, Rose etc.
or Units like Alpinia cause she lives longer and has more turns to use her Life Leech Attack...

Btw. where do you find that numbers?

I assume it's very difficult to raise the Defense that much to negate all Damage at later Stages in the Game... (17-1... etc.)

I am curious how much worth is a specific Defense increase compared to a specific Damage Reduction (like Dahlias and Bride Orchids Abilities)

Originally Posted by Corintis

Well, after doing so deep dive test runs on using accessories, I did find some interesting trivia that relates to Defense teams, so I figured I'd share an idea or two on how to best set up a Defense-Ability unit.

From what I can tell, you only need a Defense stat equal to 25% of a pest's Attack power in order to reduce incoming damage by 50%. On the other end of the spectrum, you need a bit more than double the pest's Attack power in your Defense in order to completely negate all damage.

So my tip on using Defense Abilities is this: either include only a bare minimum in a squad to get the best efficiency out of the Defense mechanisms, or go all in and attempt to raise your Squad's Defense to make them a walking Fortress.

Now, if anybody here knows the actual equations that make Defense in this game tick, PLEASE tell. It's been a nasty headache for me.

- - - Updated - - -

Oh, and since the value of Defense is entirely based on the Pests' Attack, I'm gonna repost these numbers from the other thread.

->Open Spoiler<-

1. Among our current 45 5*s, a Lv70 (Max Affection) Knight's average Defense is 2203
2. Among our current 45 5*s, a Lv70 (Max Affection) Knight's average HP is 12,376
3. Stage 12-5's Pests have an average Attack of 2500
4. Stage 13-5's Pests have an average Attack of 5000
5. Stage E14, ?-8's Pests have an average Attack of 8000

So this formula is wrong? Or the calculation will be vary depend on your the different between ATK/ DEF

Originally Posted by fate

So this formula is wrong? Or the calculation will be vary depend on your the different between ATK/ DEF

Depends if my nihongo is good ¯\_(ツ)_/¯