[Merry Christmas] 5+ Star Gacha Ticket Plus Thread

[Aidoru]

Well, it's no wonder you guys are entitled as fuck if that's what you honestly think.

Guess we're done here.

My responses had nothing to do with people complaining or being entitled, it was entirely about your remark saying the game wasn't a P2W game. Though honestly, at this point, you're just as guilty with how much you felt the need complain about shit rates for paying players which isn't only for them.

And FYI, I'm not a free player nor am I defending them.

[Eab1990]

My responses had nothing to do with people complaining or being entitled, it was entirely about your remark saying the game wasn't a P2W game. Though honestly, at this point, you're just as guilty with how much you felt the need complain about shit rates for paying players which isn't only for them.

And FYI, I'm not a free player nor am I defending them.

The point about shit rates is that paying players don't benefit from them any more than free players do. The rates are bad enough that it's not unheard of for a free player to get a rainbow in one roll and a paying player to not get one in a hundred rolls (example: me). That's why the guaranteed sales are the better deal, and even then, free players were given the chance to get the most out of their FGs by waiting for guaranteed gold 11-roll tickets, or the Bridal Oncidium gacha.

What you can't seem to comprehend is that the very definition of pay to win is that, pay to win. This implies there are barriers in FKG that cannot be overcome without paying. Objectively, this is entirely untrue, as all event girls are serviceable and even an all-silver team can clear every stage. Paying for convenience (when everyone else can get said convenience in a reasonable amount of time), or paying for waifus (when gambling outside of guaranteed deals does not present a sizable benefit over free players) is not the same thing as pay to win.

Take Aigis, for example. With the exception of majin maps (which are specifically meant to challenge whales), all maps are clearable with free units, and silver-only guides exist for such players. Certain event units can only be maxed through SC recharges, but in most cases, it doesn't make-or-break the unit, and on DMM, revivals exist for those players anyway. Therefore, not P2W, pay to waifu.

Most other Nutaku/DMM games have some form of competitive ranking that *would* constitute P2W. FKG's only form of competition is purely for show. Not P2W, pay to waifu.

This isn't a difficult concept.

[Aidoru]

The point about shit rates is that paying players don't benefit from them any more than free players do. The rates are bad enough that it's not unheard of for a free player to get a rainbow in one roll and a paying player to not get one in a hundred rolls (example: me). That's why the guaranteed sales are the better deal, and even then, free players were given the chance to get the most out of their FGs by waiting for guaranteed gold 11-roll tickets, or the Bridal Oncidium gacha.

What you can't seem to comprehend is that the very definition of pay to win is that, pay to win. This implies there are barriers in FKG that cannot be overcome without paying. Objectively, this is entirely untrue, as all event girls are serviceable and even an all-silver team can clear every stage. Paying for convenience (when everyone else can get said convenience in a reasonable amount of time), or paying for waifus (when gambling outside of guaranteed deals does not present a sizable benefit over free players) is not the same thing as pay to win.

Take Aigis, for example. With the exception of majin maps (which are specifically meant to challenge whales), all maps are clearable with free units, and silver-only guides exist for such players. Certain event units can only be maxed through SC recharges, but in most cases, it doesn't make-or-break the unit, and on DMM, revivals exist for those players anyway. Therefore, not P2W, pay to waifu.

Most other Nutaku/DMM games have some form of competitive ranking that *would* constitute P2W. FKG's only form of competition is purely for show. Not P2W, pay to waifu.

This isn't a difficult concept.

You seem to be under the belief that paying to speed up a process isn't paying to win and regardless it isn't just that, which I've stated in almost every single one of my posts.

I said this before already, it doesn't matter how long you play, you will never catch up to a paying player if you are free. It's not a matter of time solving the problem and "eventually you'll be able to clear it too", it's a matter of paying players having far more advantages in general.. That advantage alone is already P2W. The difference between FKG's P2W value compared to other games is that it is less so but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

[Eab1990]

You seem to be under the belief that paying to speed up a process isn't paying to win and regardless it isn't just that, which I've stated in almost every single one of my posts.

I said this before already, it doesn't matter how long you play, you will never catch up to a paying player if you are free. It's not a matter of time solving the problem and "eventually you'll be able to clear it too", it's a matter of paying players having far more advantages in general.. That advantage alone is already P2W. The difference between FKG's P2W value compared to other games is that it is less so but that doesn't change the fact that it is.

What you're arguing is the entire reason for mobage transactions existing, not an actual tangible difference between free and paying players. Convenience isn't inherently P2W.

Look at it this way. If I showed you a random account with a sizable amount of non-event golds and a few rainbows (ignoring levels, affection, ampies, etc.), would you be able to immediately distinguish if it was a long-time, lucky free player, or a whale who picked up the game last Tuesday? No.

Or look at it in reverse. If I showed you an account with practically no golds or rainbows, could you say for certain if it was a new free player, or a paying player with an extremely unlucky streak? Still no.

Whatever gap you see between free and paying players is largely eliminated by time and luck. Paying mitigates both, but without the guaranteed deals, it's still up to RNG in the end. Again, the main reason for FKG's popularity in the first place is that freemium players aren't left in the dust. Ergo, not P2W.

Time is only a factor if it's not feasible for free players to "catch up" to paying players. See: Pero, Osawari, really any game with ranking events.

Time is not a factor if it's just RNG in the end, and there isn't even any pressing difficulty or competition. Again, even Nutaku FKG is friendlier than DMM in this regard. Yeah, everyone gets less free gems, but if they hold 11-roll guaranteed gold deals every month, that's already a boon for free players.

And to go into a depressing note, in the end, waifus are just an advanced form of cosmetics anyway. Games like Overwatch aren't pay to win for a similar reason. Just because you can pay to speed up the process of getting loot boxes, the only thing it does is reducing the amount of grinding you have to do. It doesn't give you a distinct advantage over free players.

Pay to waifu. Pay to dress-up. Not pay to win.

[Aidoru]

Your example only further supports my reasoning. The fact that the so call whale already with a week old account consisting of an equal/similar amount of units than the free player who has been playing for who knows how long just goes to show you how much of an advantage that paying players can catch up at...

And a perfect example of this is myself. I have been playing for less than 2 months and my helper squad has 108k TP (in fact you can say it's only been a month since I have barely bothered to level them the past 1~2 weeks). I've seen several users on here who have played far longer than me that aren't even there yet.

Any kind of advantage one has from paying, no matter how small is still an advantage.

[Eab1990]

That. Isn't. Pay. To. Win.

The free player had time and luck. The paying player traded money for time. If anything, they're equal and just went about it in different ways.

What the hell does it take for you to get the point? An advantage that anyone else can make up for in a reasonable amount of time isn't a P2W advantage at all.

This is so fucking stupid already.

[Aidoru]

A paying player having an advantage is P2W. Players who purchase gold and flower gems have more advantages. Simple as that. I don't get why you don't get it.

A paying player has everything a free player has and more.

[Eab1990]

Because the "advantage" you're so hung up on is fucking meaningless. Hell, in some cases, free players can even overcome the advantage by sheer luck. That's how fucking meaningless it is.

An actual P2W wouldn't even have that possibility.

No, there likely won't come a time when a free player can beat out waterfk's team, but with enough time and grinding, they'll reach a point where it won't matter anyway, because the freebies everyone gets is enough on its own.

What IS actual P2W?
-Ranking events (Pero, Osawari).
-Gacha boosters for limited-time events that, as the name states, boost progression faster if you have them (Pero/Osawari again).
-Gacha-exclusive items that give the owner significant advantages and can only be gotten with cash (literally any MMO, ever).
-Impossibly long (or short) time windows that necessitate the use of recharges to complete (most western mobile games, Pussy Saga; Aigis would be this if not for revivals)

None of those are in FKG.

What's also not P2W are cosmetics. For example, there's an achievement in Overwatch for getting 50 unlockables for a character. There's 23 characters and 60-65 unlockables per character, and lootboxes only give four items at a time, including dupes. Obviously, it'll take some time or some extreme amount of luck to get the unlockables for one specific character. But because there's no competition, nor actual benefit over free players to getting unlockables, the only other factor is grinding and time.

[smr]

Farming for a constant supply of ampies requires powerful knights that can cover as much of a map as possible which is something a new f2p player or a regular player with only event golds can do, especially when they either gamble their gems on gacha or spend it on secret gardens. Ampies will obviously be easy to gather for the regular paying player that spends on the occasional offer and 100/300 single pulls. The price of Ampies are subjective to each player, you cannot decide whether the price is fair or not for everyone as we all value prices differently.

In the long run it means alot to fully ampy your knights as more endgame content comes along. There is actually a map on DMM that awards ten gems on 3 medals that requires both strategic abilities and preferrably max ampied units.

Marrying units in Kancolle is mandatory to unlock content (most destroyers cannot perform a special opening attack unless you level them to about 116-120 which requires real money to unlock, as well as overall stat increase and new voice lines blocked by money).

How are we going to be able to complete all character quests without paying to win
for all the gacha golds and rainbows, you cannot accept that a person will eventually get lucky and acquire all past rainbows and ongoing ones with event/compensation gems alone. The fact that new waifus come out every two weeks with low rates simply justifies pay to win for thosd that want them, especially collectors and heavy spenders.

What exactly is pay to waifu? I am pretty sure this was just made up on the spot but if you want a particular knight badly and you dont get her with gems, there is a good chance you will spend money to get her. Then perhaps another waifu pops up that you also fancy. The cycle of paying to win a grill continues.

I am just sad Nutaku's game staff actually preys on how treacherous RNG is with gacha games to actually tempt players to spend more, althouhh I font complain about getting dupes for useful girls.

[smr]

For example, you dont have much time to fully upgrade an event girl and the current event ends in a few hours. With no gems in your stock you decide to buy a few to renew your stamina. This is not pay to win? Paying customers always have the edge over free player.

We will assume said player spends his gems on other things for the sake of this argument, because we cannot speak for every player on how gems should be used and how a person manages his playing schedule.