Originally Posted by Eab1990

Argumentative? Fine. But "spoiled and self-important"? How does any of that apply when this is not an original feature of DMM FKG?

If fucking KanColle ever got localized, but introduced a P2W system that wasn't in the original, how the fuck do you think most people would feel?

This isn't just about Nutaku making money. They make enough of that with the weekly sales that most people take advantage of when reasonable, or otherwise accepted. No, this is about them changing the way people play the game just to make a quick buck and fracture the playerbase further.

1) Something not being a feature of a product operating largely in a different market isn't much of a basis for an argument. Did you know that Pizza Hut offers pizza toppings in Japan that you can't get in the U.S.?

2) I have no idea what KanColle is, so I can't really answer this beyond general terms; people who didn't like the changes wouldn't play it and would stick with the original. That's a perfectly valid choice here as well, and one that I specifically mentioned.

3) I'm a little confused here. You say this isn't just about Nutaku making money...but then you say that the change is for them to "make a quick buck" (I disregarded the "fracturing the playerbase" bit because it's nonsensical). So it's not about them making money...it's about them making money. Incidentally, how did you decide that they're making "enough money"?

Originally Posted by A Time to Screw

I'm sure you'd be a bit disgruntled too if the restaurant you keep visiting kept serving you the wrong dish.

No; I just wouldn't give them anymore of my business. If they don't care enough to get my order right, then I don't eat there; I don't continue to go there and make an issue every future time they continue messing my order up.

Originally Posted by Taon

1) Something not being a feature of a product operating largely in a different market isn't much of a basis for an argument. Did you know that Pizza Hut offers pizza toppings in Japan that you can't get in the U.S.?

2) I have no idea what KanColle is, so I can't really answer this beyond general terms; people who didn't like the changes wouldn't play it and would stick with the original. That's a perfectly valid choice here as well, and one that I specifically mentioned.

3) I'm a little confused here. You say this isn't just about Nutaku making money...but then you say that the change is for them to "make a quick buck" (I disregarded the "fracturing the playerbase" bit because it's nonsensical). So it's not about them making money...it's about them making money.

Yeah, and? Calling one fanbase "spoiled" for not being accepting of worse features doesn't make you right either.

I don't blame Nutaku for not giving out freebies like candy, or holding gacha sales like they're going out of style. I have every right to blame them for making a competition out of a game that wasn't meant for it.

Apparently, this may come as a surprise to some people, but I don't buy rainbows for e-peen. I buy them to beat the odds. It's just common sense by now that spending $100 for FGs is not a good investment when you could wait for the right sale and pick the rainbow you want for half that cost.

"Just get over it" when some of us have stuck with Nutaku for a year and only now implemented a garbage mechanic is just excusing the devs' poor decision. Do veterans not have a right to complain in your world?

Keyword: not "just" about making money. Try to keep up.

The weekly sales are fine because they only affect the portion of the playerbase that actually pays. If a sale is bad, those people ignore it and wait for something better.

The TP rankings are NOT fine, because there's a distinct possibility that free AND paying players alike could get shut out amongst themselves because of the way they've prioritized their resources. Ampied the wrong girl? Rolled Water Lily instead of Peach? Leveled Calla instead of Edelweiss? Good job, you're now in tier 4 instead of tier 3 and missed out on X rewards.

(P.S. Who the fuck in this day and age still doesn't know what KanColle is?)

I still don't get why people are getting so bent out of shape over what rewards MIGHT be. Yeah, sure, the rewards MIGHT be if you don't get above rank 1234 they delete your account. Or maybe they send you a pizza from your local Pizza Hut. Nobody knows. Until then, this is all speculation. We may as well speculate on what the weather will be like tomorrow. Or where the next Nameless typo will happen.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

(P.S. Who the fuck in this day and age still doesn't know what KanColle is?)

I don't. *googles* Apparently it's a fan-name for Kantai Collection, or a shortened name, or... maybe something about an anime? Whatever the case is, all the top results point to Kantai Collecion, so it makes sense.

Either way, it's one thing to not know what that is (which I'm sure most people who would visit these boards have at least heard of), it's another to use an abbreviated form of the name and assume people know what said abbreviation means.

Originally Posted by Taon

No; I just wouldn't give them anymore of my business. If they don't care enough to get my order right, then I don't eat there; I don't continue to go there and make an issue every future time they continue messing my order up.

You don't understand though, their seafood dishes are killer.

They just gotta stop shoving salad down my throat.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I still don't get why people are getting so bent out of shape over what rewards MIGHT be. Yeah, sure, the rewards MIGHT be if you don't get above rank 1234 they delete your account. Or maybe they send you a pizza from your local Pizza Hut. Nobody knows. Until then, this is all speculation. We may as well speculate on what the weather will be like tomorrow. Or where the next Nameless typo will happen.

The point is, the risk of them doing something abhorrent is high enough to warrant voicing our concerns beforehand, especially considering Nutaku's track record. That's the whole point.
People telling us to just wait and see what happens are content to sit around and let the worst case scenario happen. At best, it's a good idea to let these concerns be heard in a public forum.

But I guess we don't wanna hurt the devs feelings~

Originally Posted by Eab1990

Yeah, and? Calling one fanbase "spoiled" for not being accepting of worse features doesn't make you right either.

I don't blame Nutaku for not giving out freebies like candy, or holding gacha sales like they're going out of style. I have every right to blame them for making a competition out of a game that wasn't meant for it.

"Just get over it" when some of us have stuck with Nutaku for a year and only now implemented a garbage mechanic is just excusing the devs' poor decision. Do veterans not have a right to complain in your world?

Keyword: not "just" about making money. Try to keep up.

The weekly sales are fine because they only affect the portion of the playerbase that actually pays.

The TP rankings are not because there's a distinct possibility that free and paying players alike could get shut out amongst themselves because of the way they've prioritized their resources. Ampied the wrong girl? Rolled Water Lily instead of Peach? Leveled Calla instead of Lavender? Good job, you're now in tier 4 instead of tier 3 and missed out on X rewards.

1) So when I counter your argument, your response is to fall back to objecting being called "spoiled". Fair enough, but to be clear, I never called anyone spoiled, only their arguments. It's the difference between fact and opinion; I don't know you or anyone else here enough to be able to factually claim that you are spoiled but I can characterize the tone of an argument as "spoiled" because that is how it seems to me.

2) You certainly have a right to complain about things you object to. But I don't agree that you have a right to engage in hyperbole and aggressive tones when doing so. That said, I'm pretty sure that Nutaku isn't making changes for the sake of their veterans or at least not the unprofitable ones.

3) Yeah, I didn't miss the word "just", it's just that once I discarded your silly notion of "fracturing the playerbase" as an actual business reason, there was just the "making a quick buck" part left.

4) Again this is pointless speculation. What is anyone being shut out of that they wouldn't be just as shut out of if the system weren't there? Would you argue that people who can't log in daily shouldn't fall behind on daily rewards or lengthen the time before they get 6* Alstroe Maria? I could see if the rewards were pretty egregious, but since no one knows what they are then why are you going full-on doomsayer?

Originally Posted by Eab1990

(P.S. Who the fuck in this day and age still doesn't know what KanColle is?)

I thought I made it obvious that I didn't know what it was. Was I just not clear enough or was this just another one of your emotional arguments?

Originally Posted by HungryHunter

I think it looks nice minus the typo for "strength"

Attachment 4825

I'm ranked #14

should lvl all my gurls not Rainbow only to lvl 70 - just taking my sweet sweet time

If you unfriended the 13 people ahead of you, you'd be #1 on your list and you'd be winning.
Though I think the rewards for #1 and #14 are the same, so it might not be worth doing.

Originally Posted by Taon

1) So when I counter your argument, your response is to fall back to objecting being called "spoiled". Fair enough, but to be clear, I never called anyone spoiled, only their arguments. It's the difference between fact and opinion; I don't know you or anyone else here enough to be able to factually claim that you are spoiled but I can characterize the tone of an argument as "spoiled" because that is how it seems to me.

2) You certainly have a right to complain about things you object to. But I don't agree that you have a right to engage in hyperbole and aggressive tones when doing so. That said, I'm pretty sure that Nutaku isn't making changes for the sake of their veterans or at least not the unprofitable ones.

3) Yeah, I didn't miss the word "just", it's just that once I discarded your silly notion of "fracturing the playerbase" as an actual business reason, there was just the "making a quick buck" part left.

4) Again this is pointless speculation. What is anyone being shut out of that they wouldn't be just as shut out of if the system weren't there? Would you argue that people who can't log in daily shouldn't fall behind on daily rewards or lengthen the time before they get 6* Alstroe Maria? I could see if the rewards were pretty egregious, but since no one knows what they are then why are you going full-on doomsayer?


I thought I made it obvious that I didn't know what it was. Was I just not clear enough or was this just another one of your emotional arguments?

I *did* address your counterpoint, it's just that it was largely irrelevant to begin with. You falling back on name-calling doesn't help your case.

I already noted the key differences between Nutaku and DMM (less freebies, more sales). That doesn't excuse the fact that there was no reason for this new mechanic to be put in place.

I haven't been arguing what the rewards at all, though I've certainly considered the worst possible outcomes. No, I'm concerned with what the game will devolve into, and if it'll go down the likes of how X-Overd failed.

What hyperbole? Sure, I took things to its logical conclusion, but does that really change anything in my argument? If the race for highest TP devolves into a "Dendrobium or bust" contest and all other units become irrelevant, does that *really* promote a good change in the game? Of course not.

And if you don't know what one of the biggest browser mobage is, which I intended to use as *the* example of most F2P-friendly game, then I'm seriously doubting this conversation is even worth having, since you clearly don't have a metric with which to gauge what is and isn't bad business practice for mobage.

In the meantime, I guess we're just going to ignore posts like this because "I'm being a doomsayer and mean to Nutaku devs."

Originally Posted by Unregistered

There are many other examples of poorly received systems being revamped or removed, and this kind of attitude is precisely why FKG has an incredibly loyal player base on the DMM side, all development is user-centric and tries to eliminate player complaints rather than offering an endless menagerie of excuses and damage control attempts. So yeah, here's hoping that Nutaku realizes what makes this game so popular, and either changes or decides against implementing this ranking rewards mechanic that has most of the community in an uproar.

-Peeks out from under blanket- Is it safe to come out now? XD

Look, I really can't speak from a very experienced perspective like some people here can. I honestly hope FKG continues on Nutaku, because I can't read or understand Japanese. I have honestly enjoyed learning some of the background of the world of FKG because of the translations (while at times mildly annoyed by serious spelling/grammar issues). So while I could go to DMM, I'm afraid I wouldn't enjoy it so much because I don't understand why things are happening in an event's story or know the difference in the affection scene if she's saying "fuck me harder!" or "please be gentle with me". So yeah, I would hate to see FKG go down the tubes. I understand this partially because of the points raised of a competitive like state for rewards would be disappointing. I come from years of League of Legends where it's not just dick waving, but many people smacking their dicks in your face and to "like it bitch". Damn, what a toxic shithole that is.

But on the flip side, I am with Blood and the others with not giving a damn about all the dick waving. When the ranking system was first there, it's only use to me was as a judgment to see if I was keeping up enough with TP development and to make sure I was staying a viable helper to my allies. Other than this, this has definitely just been a waifu collection game to me. That's what draws me to it. It reminds me of those glory years of youth frantically trying to catch all those Pokemon. I get that same fever and, as an added bonus, get the naughty bits to go along with the collecting. So as long as people keep playing, I will not be concerned. As long as the reward system they implement isn't crazy unfair, I'll keep focusing on my waifus.

Anyway. That's just my 2 cents in the end. Not trying to rattle anyone's bones here. If push comes to shove, I suppose I could move to DMM. Just need to look into how. Worried I would be such an incredibly late starter on that side though.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

I *did* address your counterpoint, it's just that it was largely irrelevant to begin with. You falling back on name-calling doesn't help your case.

I already noted the key differences between Nutaku and DMM (less freebies, more sales). That doesn't excuse the fact that there was no reason for this new mechanic to be put in place.

I haven't been arguing what the rewards at all, though I've certainly considered the worst possible outcomes. No, I'm concerned with what the game will devolve into, and if it'll go down the likes of how X-Overd failed.

What hyperbole? Sure, I took things to its logical conclusion, but does that really change anything in my argument? If the race for highest TP devolves into a "Dendrobium or bust" contest and all other units become irrelevant, does that *really* promote a good change in the game? Of course not.

And if you don't know what one of the biggest browser mobage is, which I intended to use as *the* example of most F2P-friendly game, then I'm seriously doubting this conversation is even worth having, since you clearly don't have a metric with which to gauge what is and isn't bad business practice for mobage.

In the meantime, I guess we're just going to ignore posts like this because "I'm being a doomsayer and mean to Nutaku devs."

First of all, I have not called you any names. No idea where you got that idea from unless you're the kind of person who considers disagreement or characterization of tone an attack on your person. If you are, then I apologize for upsetting you.

The only people who are really going to care about any kind of race for highest TP are the people who already do. The only difference now is there might be some token rewards for it in the future. Getting upset that player A is ranked higher than player B because of the luck of the draw is a silly thing to get worked up over and who's to say that if the discrepancies are so bad that the way TP is calculated can't be tweaked? You can't claim to take things to a logical conclusion when that conclusion assumes the absolute worst; that is inherently illogical.

Finally, while I readily admit to my ignorance about "the biggest browser mobage", I wouldn't be so quick to assume that goes hand-in-hand with ignorance of bad business practice, mobage or otherwise. Let me put this another way: why do you think F2P games exist?

Originally Posted by Taon

First of all, I have not called you any names. No idea where you got that idea from unless you're the kind of person who considers disagreement or characterization of tone an attack on your person. If you are, then I apologize for upsetting you.

The only people who are really going to care about any kind of race for highest TP are the people who already do. The only difference now is there might be some token rewards for it in the future. Getting upset that player A is ranked higher than player B because of the luck of the draw is a silly thing to get worked up over and who's to say that if the discrepancies are so bad that the way TP is calculated can't be tweaked? You can't claim to take things to a logical conclusion when that conclusion assumes the absolute worst; that is inherently illogical.

Finally, while I readily admit to my ignorance about "the biggest browser mobage", I wouldn't be so quick to assume that goes hand-in-hand with ignorance of bad business practice, mobage or otherwise. Let me put this another way: why do you think F2P games exist?

I'm sorry, was I not supposed to take this as a personal attack? Because...

Originally Posted by Taon

The main thing I see why this is getting "turned around on the naysayers" is because just from what I've read in this thread, some of you are coming across as argumentative, spoiled and self-important. The post I quoted here is a prime example of that and if it's even remotely indicative of how things went down in Discord earlier then I can't blame anyone for not wanting to subject themselves to it longer than they have to, no matter their job.

This looks like a personal attack.

A rich one too, considering how you didn't see how Nameless brushed off our concerns with emote spam, or how blobz went on a, how you say, "self-important" rant, saying "X-Overd died because it sucked and I didn't like it, FKG won't die the same way because I'm playing it."

But no, us naysayers are the bad guys here and Nutaku is the almighty paragon of reason.

Give me a fucking break.

You haven't refuted my logical conclusion either. You want to change the way TP is calculated? How, by making it calculate every girl in your inventory? That still wouldn't change the fact that plenty of girls have better stats than others (Dendrobium is your lady and savior and you will worship her as such), and focusing on the little ones would only hurt you in the long run, waifuism be damned.

I know why F2P games exist. Now tell me why games like FKG and KanColle do well, while games like Demon's Kitchen crash and burn? Not to mention how games like Osawari and SenPro are dead/dying on DMM. Hint: Part of it involves not alienating your F2P playerbase.