Originally Posted by Ladies lover

you guys are really making things too deep it is not about ToS violation or anything like that because I know a lot friends from long time who are sharing accounts no single one is banned .

it simple matter : wrong detection of fraud caused by retarded fraud-phobic probiller system .

see the picture and you will know what I mean .

. and it is their mistake not mine they did not say they fail to support multi source payment.

they claim that a payment was done with no balance ( fake) and they said the payment was refunded and check your bank!??!!?

how can I be refunded if it is fake in the first place ?!

the payment was true I am sure of it and not refunded yet I talked to my friends and they got nothing back .

so now it is clear I was wrongfully detected as fraud because of things they were shy to say as ( dear customer we currently are fucked up and fail to handle multi source payment from different IPs because it will be detected as fraud you can wait for us to develop a little )

I think they can and did make an argument that it IS a ToS violation. I think it's a stupid rule, but it looks like they changed their policy regarding sharing of accounts. I agree that the payment is what got you flagged, but once they looked at you, they saw the ToS thing. Again, I personally see nothing wrong with sharing accounts if that's your thing, but I can see them interpreting the rules to say that sharing accounts is a ToS violation. It just depends on if you want to be really strict and use a "letter of the law" reading.

The bigger issue is if they want to say that you can't share accounts, then the enforcement is not evenhanded at all. They seem to loosely enforce the rules until they don't. When they DO enforce them, they crucify you.

I think you certainly got a raw deal. They are ENTIRELY justified in screwing you, but that doesn't really make it a good decision. But then again, according to the ToS, they can ban anyone for any reason. They don't have to tell you why.

(In case it hasn't been brought up, there are multiple payment portals for different methods of payment. Probiller is for credit cards, Epoch manages Paypal, and I'm not sure of the other payment types as they are unavailable to me. If you and your friends are using differing payment methods, it shouldn't cause any conflicts but if they still happen, then there is probably in fact a Nutaku ToS clause regarding multiple users that we're missing somewhere)

I saw the picture...and peeked at Probiller's (not Nutaku's) Terms and Conditions. From that, I've gotten a bit more insight on the likely situation.

Sharing of accounts is probably considered acceptable from the Nutaku side, but there's likely a programmed recognition of ownership built in based on anyone who makes purchases...might operate under the assumption that if you make a purchase, you're the account owner. There are likely more rules built into that note but if you happen to have your own account that you're using a payment method for and then you happen to use that exact same method to make a purchase on someone else's account, it'll get the impression you have multiple accounts, which is a direct ToS violation for both Nutaku and Probiller.

Also, there's a clause directed at subscribers in the ToS specified to Probiller that basically says sharing of the payment system itself is outright forbidden and subject to fraud review. Under that note, it just means while multiple individuals can use a single Nutaku account, you have to be extra careful about the payment portals, as they have very strict rules since they're managing money (sharing a payment portal is the legal equivalent to sharing a bank account, after all).

In short, I'm revising my inference to:

1. Possible recognition of a single payment method (credit card #) having more than one account on the Nutaku site, ToS violation, and ban (though this would ban BOTH accounts simultaneously).

2. Use of multiple payment methods from unrelated individuals to the same account, suspected:
-2a. fraudulent charge (a credit card was stolen), account locked and money will be refunded once a party has contacted Probiller to report fraudulent charges.
-2b. multiple subscribers on the same account, direct ToC violation, lockdown and notification to Nutaku, resulting in ban.

My money's on 2 (which 2, I have no idea. I'm missing information on this end). Frankly the only thing I've gotten out of this is that Nutaku allows account sharing, but Probiller strongly restricts having more than one person using a subscriber account. You can't have your friends making purchases via Probiller unless only one person makes purchases from then on.

For now, I'd say try to get Probiller to get a hold of the account for starters (sounds like your payment method wasn't recognized as a valid account so you're gonna have to get all your friends to try to run their credit cards until a hit shows up) and more or less convince Probiller that there's no fraud, the payments are valid, and you want them to allow the use of all the recorded credit cards (and more of them if you plan on keeping this up). Honestly, the whole making purchases under different people sounds like the reason everything went awry so if you plan to keep that up, this will likely happen again and/or both Probiller and Nutaku will decide your case is way too big a pain in the ass to work on.

You think we're going too deep into this? On the contrary, I think you're only scratching at the surface and that's why you may not see the big picture. Some of us here have run into similar parts of the issues you are facing and have a bit of wisdom on that end. You waving both them and us off and blatantly placing the fault on others only lengthens the problem at hand and if your patterns of speech (text) are any way similar to what you're saying to us when you try to communicate with them, you're very likely to be aggravating them, which would make anyone trying to help you much less motivated to do so.

*sigh* since the beginning of my gaming career, I've never at any point allowed anyone else to make purchases on my account. I had considered it an unspoken rule that something like that was forbidden, though I didn't actually know the reasons why. Looking at this though, it finally makes sense, and for that I'm glad I never tried that road when I was younger and ignorant of the fraud paranoia that payment portals face daily.

I don't know what people are thinking now, but I have never shared accounts with anyone on any game I was playing. The only time I ever gave anyone access to any of my gaming accounts was when I was completely done with ALL accounts for that particular game and was never going to come back. If those accounts and all accounts associated with them get banned for account sharing, why would I care?

If I care about a gaming account, I don't want anyone else to do things in the game that reflect poorly on me or make bad decisions with my account's items. Though there aren't too many ways this can happen in PPS, it's certainly possible in some of the other Nutaku games and the only way I can be sure is to be the only one to use my account.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

I don't know what people are thinking now, but I have never shared accounts with anyone on any game I was playing.

If I care about a gaming account, I don't want anyone else to do things in the game that reflect poorly on me or make bad decisions with my account's items. Though there aren't too many ways this can happen in PPS, it's certainly possible in some of the other Nutaku games and the only way I can be sure is to be the only one to use my account.

I guess that depends on how well you can trust people. Going on vacation becomes a lot more fun if someone who doesn't mess up takes care of your account while you're away. Especially with the constant events of most games. Of course, this requires someone who knows what to do as well as clear instructions on how to handle different situations.

Oh, and those payment processors belongs to Mindgeek, owner of RK, Brazzers, Pornhub. This means you are blacklisted for those sides too.

Go torrent!

Who needs pornhub when there's tsumino anyways? 0.o

And who the hell pays for pornhub prem---

I guess i'd be a hypocrite if i continued that sentence considering i have put a fair deal of money into some nutaku games.

Originally Posted by Tenhou

Who needs pornhub when there's tsumino anyways? 0.o

And who the hell pays for pornhub prem---

I guess i'd be a hypocrite if i continued that sentence considering i have put a fair deal of money into some nutaku games.

Tsumino? This sounds like something I need to know about.

- - - Updated - - -

Originally Posted by ChibiKika

I saw the picture...and peeked at Probiller's (not Nutaku's) Terms and Conditions. From that, I've gotten a bit more insight on the likely situation.

Sharing of accounts is probably considered acceptable from the Nutaku side, but there's likely a programmed recognition of ownership built in based on anyone who makes purchases...might operate under the assumption that if you make a purchase, you're the account owner. There are likely more rules built into that note but if you happen to have your own account that you're using a payment method for and then you happen to use that exact same method to make a purchase on someone else's account, it'll get the impression you have multiple accounts, which is a direct ToS violation for both Nutaku and Probiller.

I'm not so sure that Nutaku is okay with sharing. As Chillin pointed out, they recently changed the wording on the ToS. I can't fathom WHY they would change the wording, but the new phrasing is much less accepting of account sharing. I don't know if my "letter of the law" interpretation is against the rules, but even if it's allowed, it has gone from explicitly allowed to tolerated at best.

In truth, I don't see why Nutaku would care if one person used an account or if 100 people used it. My gut tells me that the issue with sharing probably has more to do with security. American porn laws are somewhat vague. Obscene material (and therefore not covered by 1st amendment rights) is determined by the Miller test, which essentially boils down to "you know obscenity when you see it." As many people have noticed, Nutaku and PPS in particular is okay with lolis. Nutaku 'claims' that all characters are 18 or older. I know there are women that are most definitely over 18 that looked younger. I briefly worked in the adult film industry, and I got to know Alyssa Hart. When I met her, I thought she looked 12, even though she was 26 at the time.

So... Nutaku might have the opinion that if you lock down the account to one person one account, then you have less risk of exposing material that might not go over well to people that are not authorized to see it. I think this is ridiculous, but since when do politics have to make sense? I can actually see Nutaku wanting to be proactive to say that when people sign up to use the site, only one person has access, and that person attests that they are 18 or of the legal age to view porn in their region.

Suppose I sign up for Nutaku and I am 34. If I share my password with a minor, I have now allowed a minor to view pornographic material. This minor did not click that they attest that they are 18 or older.

Do I believe that Lady's Lover shared his password with a minor? Not at all. But the scenario is plausible enough that Nutaku could have made pre-emptive steps to try to cover their ass in the case of bad PR or a morality crusade against a website with images of what appears to possibly be underage girls in sexual situations. If she looks under 18, simply saying "she's 18" doesn't mean that someone interpreting the Miller Test has to say "Oh, Nutaku said that even though Koharu Yuishiro looks to be about 12, Nutaku says she's totally 18, so it's not kiddie porn."

Honestly, I don't care if Koharu looks underage. I don't care if YOU think Koharu looks underage. I don't even care if you think Koharu looks underage and you fap to that. As long as you're fapping to a drawn picture on a website and not an actual little girl, I don't really care what gets your rocks off. Some people are turned on by some weird stuff, and I'm not going to judge them so long as they are not doing anything reprehensible in real life.

So it's entirely possible that Nutaku is being a bit careful.

You also bring up the issue of credit cards from multiple regions. Credit card payments are a tricky issue, mostly due to the issue I just mentioned. About a year ago, Fetlife (basically Facebook for kinky people) lost the ability to accept payments for accounts because they were dropped by their online billers. Essentially, since Fetlife contains pictures that could be deemed obscene, their biller dropped them. It took a while for Fetlife to find a biller that would process their payments.

Nutaku is in a similar predicament. If the company that processes their payments decides that Nutaku has obscene material (which goes beyond what is protected speech), then they can lose the ability to process payments online. As such, Nutaku wants to maintain a VERY happy relationship with the people that process their payments. If Probiller thinks that account activity looks suspicious, they are likely to be proactive and deny service. This is especially true since laws say that if a person uses my credit card to fraudulently make a purchase, I am not held accountable for the charges. The company that accepts the fraudulent charge loses the money because they processed the fraudulent payment. So the onus is on retailers and businesses to make sure that they do not process anything that isn't on the up and up. After all, if my number is stolen and someone buys 100 dollars worth of Nutaku gold, I do not lose 100 dollars. Bank of America does not lose 100 dollars. Nutaku loses 100 dollars (or Probiller, depending on how that works.) With laws that work against them in the case of fraud, it's better to flag a potentially legitimate payment rather than risk processing a fraudulent one. It's risk/benefit, and internet companies are as risk averse as possible.

This gives two reasons for Nutaku to see this case and reflexively ban the account. It's purely risk/benefit analysis.