+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 6 123 ... LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 52

  1. PeroPero
  2. PeroPero Seduction Integration

  1. #1

    Bonus stage is so bad

    *** I have since I posted this first time collected a lot more data. All my post have been updated but it basicly just change some decimals ***
    *** When I get even more data I will update Again ***


    All stages but bonus stage and GHQ seem to have thise chances:

    Triple Chance: 10.0 %
    Trible Exp: 10.0%
    Trible Gift 10.0%
    Trible Pero 5.5%
    Other spin: 64.5%
    Cost per spin 1 to 10 stamina

    Result are bested on more that 3000 spins. Data come mainly from area 1-3, 5-3 and 7-3 and proberbilities seems to be same at all aeras.

    Bonus stage

    Triple Chance: 6.0 %
    Trible Exp: 2.7%
    Trible Gift 5.5%
    Trible Pero 5.5%
    Other spin: 80,3%
    (Bassed on 120 spins.)
    Cost per spin 10 stamina

    At stage 1-3 player can get 160 trible chance per day while only 5.5 at bonus stage.
    At bonus stage it is almost all quest other than stamina and pie quest are imposible.
    At stage players can finish all but the quest that give Ex-Wild every day.

    If you got the girls that drop at stage 1-3 to level 100 you will earn enogth pero for 60 N-Gacha per day with Money from quests. So basicly mycalculation show that you get 5 times more levels for your SR-girls at 1-3 than at bonus stage.
    If you are a free player and want you SED to grow fast stay at 1-3 untill all you girls incl. all girls from N-Gacha have maxed.
    The and first then a players should leave aera 1-3.

    4-5 extra level for you SR-girls per day matters in long run.

    I feel in is a bug that area 1-3 are so much more powerfull than bonus area.

    At bonus stage you will not get the R-Gacha from quest so you will have nothing to danate after first month so no limmed girls for free players after first month.

    At stage 1-3 there are also a fair chance to get a daily Ex-Wild. Ex-Wild are also be obtained as reward to player who finish events in top 20 but free players will not get in top 20 and reward is just 1 to 3 Ex-wild anyway.
    I can grind 2-3 Ex wild per week as free player without using any items.

    Collection 60 to 80 N-Gacha per day also really help a player get the SR-Girl you need for an event.

    Maybe it is intended that players go to bonus staqe and by doing so stop growing unless they buy groth by spending tons of real Money.

    i went from area 1-3 to area 5-3 a few days ago to get 2 quests at same time (spins cost at 5) but now a really regrad leaving area 1-3 , but area 5-3 is still so much better than bonus arae.

    Players should be able to go back to area where they have been in imo.

    To do all Chance quests player have to get 18x Triple Chance. On avariage that takes 16..66*18 = 300 spins = 3000 Stamina normaly. In 24h players gain 1440 stamina so players need lots of luck to get the daily R-Gacha. At Bonus stage. At GHQ it cost around 960 stamina to get the R-Gacha on average. At stage 5-3 R-Gacha cost around 180 spins = 900 stamina on average.
    Last edited by Opalia24; 07-16-2015 at 04:33 AM.


  2. #2
    Yeah, the bonus area is really bad. Truthfully GHQ is a lot better. It requires 20 stamina, but the odds are a lot higher that you will get a triple hit. Truthfully I wish we could go back to a different area like in the other games and hopefully some day that might happen.
    PeroPero: Zerana (879179) 55 out of 62 PeroFriends
    Osawari Island: CR20OG4XY3FGUTSJJ8599 (10 out of 10. Ty everyone ♥)


    Kamihimi Project R:

    ID: 879179
    Name: Zerana
    Eidolon: Phoenix lvl 55 (Will always change my main Eidolon to match event weakness)
    45 out of 49 Friends



    Mononofu: White Lilly Battle Princesses

    Friend ID: Zerana
    31 out of 50 Friends



    Flower Knight Girl: 818588405 (27 out of 31 Allies)

  3. #3

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    157
    Credits
    179
    While bonus area is very bad compared to Stage 1-3, I think you're doing an unfair comparisson.
    The problem here isn't the poor effectiveness of B.A., but the game-breaking unbalanced effectiveness of 1-3.

    We all admit that Stage 1-3 is frankly too unbalanced, that it pretty much lames the spirit of the game (which is most definitely not allowing a player to reach top100 power levels in a month by staying at less than 10% of game completion).

    If we were to do our maths on most stages, we'd probably get numbers pretty close to those in the bonus area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Zerana View Post
    Yeah, the bonus area is really bad. Truthfully GHQ is a lot better. It requires 20 stamina, but the odds are a lot higher that you will get a triple hit. Truthfully I wish we could go back to a different area like in the other games and hopefully some day that might happen.
    I will agree with you on that. However, I find that, right now, outside of the Chance Time mission (to get R-Gachas for Kurito), I'm happier farming Pero and Exp from the Bonus Area (which is the advantage that zone has over GHQ).

    Nowadays I complete all three of the Pie, Stamina, and Chance missions, and invest all the pero into N-Gacha that net me at least 2 of the 3 Flirt missions. Outside of that, I manage at least all the other one-star missions.

    Does it hurt my game? Maybe. Not getting as many R-WC as before. However, once you have leveled up all N-Cards, 90% of your Chance Times will only result in extra pero.


    Resuming:
    Just comparing Bonus Area against Stage 1-3 is completely unfair and unrealistic, seeing as Stage 1-3 is acknowledged as a broken stage in terms of balance. I'm pretty sure the whole change from "random card levels up" to "get some bonus pero" for Chance Times was implemented just to mitigate that stage some.
    BA is a lot more balanced in comparisson with any other stage in the game but 1-3.

    GHQ has better chances than BA, but it costs twice the stamina, and delivers a lot less pero/exp rewards (BA costs 10sta and rewards equal exp and 4x pero, while GHQ costs 20sta and rewards 0.75exp and 3x pero).
    There is a nice balance there: Choose between more spin rewards and faster grinding/farming.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I don't think having access to all stages is a good thing.
    It actually has the potential o laming the game, exactly for the same reason you're asking for that access: 1sta spins mean that even the atrocious rate of 4% from BA would yield almost 60 of each triple-spin. That's three times a guaranteed mission roster (plus 60 lvls/18k~60k pero, just from chancetimes).

    However, a kind of sub-bonus area for each stage would be interesting. They'd only need to raise the current BA's rates a bit (Say, around same rates as best substage overall) and then each subBA would get proportionate values acording to the stamina cost (if BA costs 10sta, and has a 9% rate, then BA1 could cost 4sta and have 4% rate; while BA2 could cost 8sta and have a 7% rate).
    Last edited by YoshiEnVerde; 07-14-2015 at 10:27 AM. Reason: Adding extra opinions
    PPS ID: 853603 (YoshiEnVerde)
    Osawari Invite: 40VRKO15D3C537UUC2F4F

  4. #4
    GHQ is so much better than Bonus stage.
    GHQ seems to always give eigther:
    a) Triple Exp chance 18%
    b) Triple Chance 38% Chance of SR-girl form a trippel chance spin seems to be the same as anywhere else.
    c) Triple Pero 13%
    d) Triple Gift 28%
    e) No-triple 3%

    Cost per spin 20 stamina
    Exp: 15
    Pero: 60

    Updated based on 130 spins

    But to finish all the Chance missions a players need 3x Chance 18 times.
    On avaridge this takes 18 /0.38 = 48 spins = 960 stamina. So a player with max 240 stamina have to lock in 4 time to have a fair chance to finish thise missions even if he focus on thise missions all the time. At bonus stage chance for finishing the chance missinons seem even lower.
    Last edited by Opalia24; 07-15-2015 at 11:32 AM.

  5. #5

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    157
    Credits
    179
    Quote Originally Posted by Opalia24 View Post
    GHQ is so much better than Bonus stage.
    GHQ seems to always give eigther:
    a) trippel Exp
    b) trippel Chance
    c) trippel Pero
    d) trippel gift
    The problem isn't how much percieved better chances you have, but how much real better chances it gives you.
    Just the fact GHQ costs twice the stamina means the base chance from GHQ is half the one from BA.

    That means that, based on [MENTION=57]your[/MENTION] numbers here, you'd need over 8% chances on every triple spin in GHQ just to match the chances in BA.
    That means you'd need GHQ to have better chances than Stage 1-3 (the one we've all agreed is too broken) to really compete against BA.

    Add, once again, the fact that the reward effectiveness of BA is of 1exp and 3.5~4pero per stamina point spent, against the 0.75exp and 2.75~3pero per stamina point spent of GHQ.

    - - - Updated - - -

    I'm trying to deal with hard cold maths here.
    If it were about personal experiences, I could start waxing a lot of stories about how the first few days GHQ pretty much yielded three triple-spins out of four clicks... And how nowadays I barely get one every 7 or 8.

    The point is that we should deal with real facts here, and not what we believe we've seen.
    These probability calculations work better the more time and resources we pull together, and when more people help.

    For better values for this we'd need to create about 10 dummy accounts and have them run on Stage 1-3 for a month, with a spenditure of at least 300sta a day. That would net us almost one million spin results.
    Then, we'd need 10 accounts (dummy or not) to run at least half a million spins on BA, and another 10 do the same in GHQ.

    That would give us pretty stable values.

    I'm game to doing something like that with 2 or 3 dummy accounts.
    Of course just doing this myself would need at least 3 months just for 3 sets of the desired 10 (or 1 month for 1 of each)
    PPS ID: 853603 (YoshiEnVerde)
    Osawari Invite: 40VRKO15D3C537UUC2F4F

  6. #6

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,916
    Credits
    1,639
    Not sure what you are on about this time Yoshi. While i agree that the BA gives more exp and money per spin, the GHQ gives you a guaranteed triple spin as opposed to BA where you can go eons without getting any triple tokens.

    The fact that it never gives a failed match is quite huge in itself. Sure, it does not give as much raw exp and pero per spin, but since you always get a token match, it means it will give you a good amount of it anyways.

    Let's take it like this: BA has failures, which means, say 40-50% of your rolls will only give you the base exp and pero.
    Meanwhile GHQ does not have those failures which means that those 40-50% never happen and thus the chances to get a given token goes up.

  7. #7

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Location
    Ann Arbor, Michigan
    Posts
    134
    Credits
    142
    Items Thread Title Style Change
    Come clean Yoshi, how much is the BA paying you to come to its defense

    Kidding aside, I always appreciate you guys who work well with math/stats/breaking these types of things down, as its the farthest thing from my forte.

    Even with some preliminary numbers laid out I still can't bring myself to look favorably on the BA in any way though. I've gone through 200 stam handfuls of times on it with only hitting a single triple. For me, this simple fact that I don't want my PeroPero to feel like I'm sitting at a real casino will rule it out for me. But as you said, personal experiences certainly should not take away from the factual math/pursuit of it.
    531115
    PPS: 3m+ SED
    Hitsuji: 85 Nina

  8. #8

    Area 5-3, bonus stage and GHQ

    *** Updated using more data - It didnt change much ***
    To make compaire easyer I show what I expext player would get on avaridge if they spend 200 stamina. Sample size are much bigger ofcause.

    10 spins at GHQ cost 200 stamina and gives:
    3.8 triple Chance
    1.8 triple Exp
    1.3 triple Pero
    2.8 triple Gift
    0.3 non-triple
    Total 2.8*N-Wild, 1306 Pero, 171 exp and 3.8 per 200 stamina.
    (based on 130 spins)

    20 spins at BONUS STAGE also cost 200 stamina and gives:
    1.2 triple Chance
    1 triple Exp
    1 triple Pero
    1 triple Gift
    Total 1*N-Wild, 1160 Pero, 210 exp and 1 girls per 200 stamina.
    (bassed on 80 spins)

    40 Spins at 5-3 cost 200 stamina
    4.3 triple Chance
    3.6 triple Exp
    2.2 triple Pero
    4.2 triple Gift
    Total 4.2*N-Wild, 1483 Pero, 210 exp and 4.3 girls per 200 stamina.
    (based on 500+ spins)

    200 Spins at 1-3 cost 200 stamina
    20 triple Chance
    20 triple Exp
    10 triple Pero
    20 triple Gift
    Total 20*N-Wild, 1450 Pero, 210 exp and 20 girls per 200 stamina.
    Only 1 quest at one time
    (based on 1000+ spins)

    100 Spins at 1-9 cost 200 stamina
    10 triple Chance
    10 triple Exp
    5 triple Pero
    10 triple Gift
    Total 10*N-Wild, 1450 Pero, 210 exp and 10 girls per 200 stamina.
    Only 1 quest at one time
    (based on 500+ spins)


    GHQ is better than bonus stage on all but exp - but exp dont matter much. For most quests GHQ is best too.
    So I would pick GHQ and not Bonus stage.
    GHQ is not as good as Area 5-3 (where spins cost 5 stamina) .
    GHQ seem better than all the areas after 5-3 imo, but I need more testing.
    All my N-girls are maxed so I get like 2500 pero from GHQ and just 1500 pero from bonus stage per 200 stamina. Big difference imo.

    Problem with GHQ is that we dont have acces 24/7 to it.

    Outside area with spin cost 1 or 2 and area 5-3 the GHQ are my facorits. 5-3 has 5 in spin cost and it is first area that allow 2 missions at same time.
    Last edited by Opalia24; 07-16-2015 at 04:34 AM.

  9. #9

    Join Date
    Jun 2015
    Posts
    1,916
    Credits
    1,639
    In all honesty, that small of a sample size is nowhere near enough to properly show everything. However, it does demonstrate what i meant with there being no failure chance on the GHQ meaning you always get some kind of reward. Since BA is so incredibly random, it is a safer bet to go with GHQ.

  10. #10

    Join Date
    Jul 2015
    Location
    Argentina
    Posts
    157
    Credits
    179
    There's one problem with the numbers given here:
    I have recieved non-triple-spins in GHQ, and quite a lot of them. That means they're not triple-spin-guaranteed (Either that, or I managed to hit a bug).

    Also, the last 800sta I spent today in BA has netted me:
    • All three chance missions (18 chance times)
    • Pero and Exp one-star missions (3 triple-spins each)
    • Around 10 to 15 triple-spins that didn't count to current missions (Pero and Exp)


    That's almost 40 triple-spins out of 800sta, or which is arount 10 times more triple-spins than you are accounting for.
    Even considering today was pretty much a nce in a lifetime level of lucky spins for me (I do admit these numbers are almost unveliebable for BA), luck drifts could never account for a 1000% difference between measures.

    That means that your values are just as skewed (to the bad luck side) as mine (to the good luck side).

    Once again, that's why I say that for these values to be relevant we'd need to conduct a real long experiment, with more than 2 accounts, and definitely more than 12hs of stamina (or less).
    Just to make a point on this, I can tell you that for the whole Guards event I drew 20 to 50 N-Gacha tickets every day, and only saw Akie thrice (and, of course, didn't get her). However, that doesn't mean the probability of getting her was above 1:600, seeing as a few thousand people got her in the first 100 N-Gachas. Thus, their 1000 results of 1:100 have a lot more weight than my 1:600+.

    Another example: There's people that got a limited card from Kurito on their first 5 draws (I got Aoe in the first one, and I only gave her a Peranim or Peropudding, can't remember), while there's other people that have been feeding her daily R-Gachas for months and haven't even seen one.
    PPS ID: 853603 (YoshiEnVerde)
    Osawari Invite: 40VRKO15D3C537UUC2F4F

Posting Permissions

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •