Originally Posted by Eab1990

I *did* address your counterpoint, it's just that it was largely irrelevant to begin with. You falling back on name-calling doesn't help your case.

I already noted the key differences between Nutaku and DMM (less freebies, more sales). That doesn't excuse the fact that there was no reason for this new mechanic to be put in place.

I haven't been arguing what the rewards at all, though I've certainly considered the worst possible outcomes. No, I'm concerned with what the game will devolve into, and if it'll go down the likes of how X-Overd failed.

What hyperbole? Sure, I took things to its logical conclusion, but does that really change anything in my argument? If the race for highest TP devolves into a "Dendrobium or bust" contest and all other units become irrelevant, does that *really* promote a good change in the game? Of course not.

And if you don't know what one of the biggest browser mobage is, which I intended to use as *the* example of most F2P-friendly game, then I'm seriously doubting this conversation is even worth having, since you clearly don't have a metric with which to gauge what is and isn't bad business practice for mobage.

In the meantime, I guess we're just going to ignore posts like this because "I'm being a doomsayer and mean to Nutaku devs."

First of all, I have not called you any names. No idea where you got that idea from unless you're the kind of person who considers disagreement or characterization of tone an attack on your person. If you are, then I apologize for upsetting you.

The only people who are really going to care about any kind of race for highest TP are the people who already do. The only difference now is there might be some token rewards for it in the future. Getting upset that player A is ranked higher than player B because of the luck of the draw is a silly thing to get worked up over and who's to say that if the discrepancies are so bad that the way TP is calculated can't be tweaked? You can't claim to take things to a logical conclusion when that conclusion assumes the absolute worst; that is inherently illogical.

Finally, while I readily admit to my ignorance about "the biggest browser mobage", I wouldn't be so quick to assume that goes hand-in-hand with ignorance of bad business practice, mobage or otherwise. Let me put this another way: why do you think F2P games exist?

Originally Posted by Taon

First of all, I have not called you any names. No idea where you got that idea from unless you're the kind of person who considers disagreement or characterization of tone an attack on your person. If you are, then I apologize for upsetting you.

The only people who are really going to care about any kind of race for highest TP are the people who already do. The only difference now is there might be some token rewards for it in the future. Getting upset that player A is ranked higher than player B because of the luck of the draw is a silly thing to get worked up over and who's to say that if the discrepancies are so bad that the way TP is calculated can't be tweaked? You can't claim to take things to a logical conclusion when that conclusion assumes the absolute worst; that is inherently illogical.

Finally, while I readily admit to my ignorance about "the biggest browser mobage", I wouldn't be so quick to assume that goes hand-in-hand with ignorance of bad business practice, mobage or otherwise. Let me put this another way: why do you think F2P games exist?

I'm sorry, was I not supposed to take this as a personal attack? Because...

Originally Posted by Taon

The main thing I see why this is getting "turned around on the naysayers" is because just from what I've read in this thread, some of you are coming across as argumentative, spoiled and self-important. The post I quoted here is a prime example of that and if it's even remotely indicative of how things went down in Discord earlier then I can't blame anyone for not wanting to subject themselves to it longer than they have to, no matter their job.

This looks like a personal attack.

A rich one too, considering how you didn't see how Nameless brushed off our concerns with emote spam, or how blobz went on a, how you say, "self-important" rant, saying "X-Overd died because it sucked and I didn't like it, FKG won't die the same way because I'm playing it."

But no, us naysayers are the bad guys here and Nutaku is the almighty paragon of reason.

Give me a fucking break.

You haven't refuted my logical conclusion either. You want to change the way TP is calculated? How, by making it calculate every girl in your inventory? That still wouldn't change the fact that plenty of girls have better stats than others (Dendrobium is your lady and savior and you will worship her as such), and focusing on the little ones would only hurt you in the long run, waifuism be damned.

I know why F2P games exist. Now tell me why games like FKG and KanColle do well, while games like Demon's Kitchen crash and burn? Not to mention how games like Osawari and SenPro are dead/dying on DMM. Hint: Part of it involves not alienating your F2P playerbase.

Sir Eab for now just keep pushing on DM to Namely & Co.
Give them time to breath for a day and let's see what will happen next.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

I'm sorry, was I not supposed to take this as a personal attack? Because...



This looks like a personal attack.

A rich one too, considering how you didn't see how Nameless brushed off our concerns with emote spam, or how blobz went on a, how you say, "self-important" rant, saying "X-Overd died because it sucked and I didn't like it, FKG won't die the same way because I'm playing it."

But no, us naysayers are the bad guys here and Nutaku is the almighty paragon of reason.

Give me a fucking break.

You haven't refuted my logical conclusion either. You want to change the way TP is calculated? How, by making it calculate every girl in your inventory? That still wouldn't change the fact that plenty of girls have better stats than others (Dendrobium is your lady and savior and you will worship her as such), and focusing on the little ones would only hurt you in the long run, waifuism be damned.

I know why F2P games exist. Now tell me why games like FKG and KanColle do well, while games like Demon's Kitchen crash and burn? Not to mention how games like Osawari and SenPro are dead/dying on DMM. Hint: Part of it involves not alienating your F2P playerbase.

Okay, so you are the kind of person that takes a characterization of tone as a personal attack. I apologize; as I've said a few times now I wasn't attacking you as a person, but your argument and its tone.

As for changing the way TP is calculated, I admit that I don't have an answer to that right now; it was meant to be an example of how something could be changed to mitigate a perceived sharp imbalance because your argument was essentially "FKG will crash and burn with no one making any attempt to take corrective action if this TP ranking system remains". Does that refute your "logical conclusion"? I mean, seriously, are you the kind of person who thinks some things aren't worth the effort because eventually the Sun will collapse on itself and all life on Earth will be extinct?

Beyond the existence of F2P players as volunteer employees in a Skinner box to entice paying customers to continue paying in order to maintain a feeling of superiority over those volunteers, no game dev gives a damn about them. There is your difference; when it's done right, the paying customers don't feel that they have to pay, but they want to because they want the shortcut to superiority and the F2P players won't feel frustrated enough to play something else. But if the paying playerbase gets large enough to generate and sustain competition within itself, then the F2P players become superfluous.

In the particular case of FKG there is a lot to be said about the UI as well; typos aside, it's a fairly clean and responsive interface that doesn't feel like it's sucking the life out of you when you try to do anything (looking right your way Kamehime). I haven't played the ones you mentioned as examples of failed games, though I did briefly play X-Overd and found that UI to be clunky and off-putting enough that I didn't want to invest any time, let alone money, into it.

I think I've beaten this horse enough though; all I'm saying is that if you want the devs to take you seriously then you can't jump right into full hysteria over something you disagree with. You're right in that I wasn't witness to what happened in Discord, but judging from the way some people jumped down BB's virtual throat in this thread, I have a hard time believing the tone over there was rational and measured.

List of things corrected by mass hysteria on FKG: Asagao's censoring, Lavender's scene, stupid made-up names for flower knights

List of things corrected by "waiting and seeing" (read: allowing Nutaku to go ahead with their more questionable ideas) on FKG: ??????

On the whole, I'd say mass hysteria is a pretty good way for players to get things done. Rage on, folks.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

List of things corrected by mass hysteria on FKG: Asagao's censoring, Lavender's scene, stupid made-up names for flower knights

List of things corrected by "waiting and seeing" (read: allowing Nutaku to go ahead with their more questionable ideas) on FKG: ??????

On the whole, I'd say mass hysteria is a pretty good way for players to get things done. Rage on, folks.

I could put on a pink tutu and do the Macarena in my living room. Not sure it would accomplish much, though.

Unless I've missed a memo, these forums are unofficial forums; they're not sponsored by Nutaku, nor likely browsed by them. They most topics here can do is raise awareness amongst the players who come here. So raising a stink here will not directly affect *anything*.

Indirectly, sure. Hell, before I read this topic, I didn't know about the impending ranking-based rewards. I'm glad I found out about that. But a bunch of pointless bickering and back-and-forth? No, none of the "rage" on here really does anything except act as troll bait for the other half of the argument. Good for pageviews, perhaps, but if you're looking to "get things done", it ranks only slightly higher than "pink tutu Macarena" (and only slightly prettier).

...Nothing I've seen yet is cause for alarm. Worry, sure, but not Chicken Little alarm. Again, we don't know what the rewards are going to be. Could they be something that breaks the game, like exclusives and power creep? Perhaps. They could also be something benign, like bonus gems and tickets. The global rankings themselves, and the concept of ranking-based rewards, are *not* intrinsically bad. And I say that as someone who will most definitely never win a single worthwhile reward off of them.

If we actually want to "do something" about this, then flailing about and screaming to remove the rankings, and predicting death and destruction, are pointless. It's all too easy for someone like Nameless to write off those complaints as "impossible to please" and "generic doomsaying" respectively, and go off and do whatever stupid plan he's cooking up. Rather, go to Discord when one of them is on, and instead stress the things we *don't* want - we don't want ranking-based rewards that would break the game for anyone who can't throw half their paycheck at the screen. That's it, that's all.

Anything else is pointless, and will accomplish absolutely nothing.

Meh... Guys you are missing the big picture here... we asked for TP Ranking back and we got it back.... this is a GOOD thing and has no bad points at all. Sure the new ranking has irrelevant data like how much XP you are through your level but w/e it looks better then the old one and is much clearer.

And hey if they add a global ranking then more power to them, it doesn't effect 90% of the player base anyway as we all know if you don't have 20 6*s you will not be near the top.

So the whales get a new fancy dick ruler and the game gets more cash from them fighting with each other meaning the game will stay open longer and we who do not whale will get to play for longer how is that a bad thing?

Originally Posted by Zandel

Meh... Guys you are missing the big picture here... we asked for TP Ranking back and we got it back.... this is a GOOD thing and has no bad points at all. Sure the new ranking has irrelevant data like how much XP you are through your level but w/e it looks better then the old one and is much clearer.

And hey if they add a global ranking then more power to them, it doesn't effect 90% of the player base anyway as we all know if you don't have 20 6*s you will not be near the top.

So the whales get a new fancy dick ruler and the game gets more cash from them fighting with each other meaning the game will stay open longer and we who do not whale will get to play for longer how is that a bad thing?

As stated, the same thing happened to X-Overd. The main thing to take from that is stop doing stuff that will piss the devs off. Nutaku went astray and that was the reason for devs to pull X-Overd out, the same thing can happen here too. It's to err on the side of caution.

Putting competition where there is no need for it is not more power to them, it's a way to cash grab more in the event that this game too is dropped.

Originally Posted by Unregistered

If we actually want to "do something" about this, then flailing about and screaming to remove the rankings, and predicting death and destruction, are pointless. It's all too easy for someone like Nameless to write off those complaints as "impossible to please" and "generic doomsaying" respectively, and go off and do whatever stupid plan he's cooking up. Rather, go to Discord when one of them is on, and instead stress the things we *don't* want - we don't want ranking-based rewards that would break the game for anyone who can't throw half their paycheck at the screen. That's it, that's all.

Anything else is pointless, and will accomplish absolutely nothing.

Already a step ahead of you. I've PM'd this thread to them.

Originally Posted by kringley

At the same time Eab, for someone who didn't see the Discord argument, you're coming off with a very aggressive and off-putting tone. I mean I only have a vague idea of what KanColle is and sure that means you can't just point at it and say 'this should be like that' but it doesn't mean that discussion is pointless.

So are we just going to ignore posts like this? Don't pretend this aggressiveness is one-sided.

Originally Posted by Bloodsport Bloom

Good b8 m8.

I'm saying FKG community is like a prissy wife. This thread is a testament to that.
I've said my two cents worth.

For the record, I would have left after five minutes. Nameless doesn't owe us jack shit, and I'm surprised he gave us that much time considering the reaction he was given to giving us back a feature everyone spent a month begging for.

Originally Posted by Eab1990

So are we just going to ignore posts like this? Don't pretend this aggressiveness is one-sided.

Who's pretending? There wasn't even any real point besides posturing there (In Bloodsport Bloom's post).
At the same time, you've got Mindrunner for whom about every other post amounts to "Nameless kicked my dog and took my lunch money" which is also not useful.
I was just saying that because past a point, aggressive arguing can push people away from positions they might otherwise support.
And although I'm in a kind of wait and see when it comes to this ranking list, I certainly don't think it really adds anything useful to the game.
As long as it doesn't stop me from running normal events, collecting and upgrading girls, etc. though, it won't really take anything away from me either.